Ep 328 – The World’s First Cannabis Inhaler Is Disrupting the Wellness Industry

andreas boeckl sula

Entrepreneurs are bringing pharmaceutical science to the cannabis world to create products that provide consistent and predictable benefits. 

Here to tell us more about it is Andreas Boeckl, founder and CEO of Dispersa Labs.

Learn more at https://www.breathesula.com 

Key Takeaways:

[1:14] An inside look at Dispersa Labs, a biotech company using dry powder inhalation technology to create breathable cannabis

[1:54] Andreas’ background and how he came to start Dispersa Labs

[6:43] Why inhaling cannabis in powder form is better than smoking flower

[11:05] Spray-drying and why it’s important to Dispersa’s manufacturing process

[12:47] How Dispersa Labs suspends cannabinoids inside tiny aerosol particles to create Sula, a patented cannabis powder for pulmonary delivery

[14:15] Examples of commercial inhalants similar to Sula, including the popular asthma drug Advair

[22:20] How Sula is more discreet than other cannabis consumption methods

[31:42] Where Dispersa Labs currently is in the capital-raising process

Click Here to Read Full Transcript

Matthew Kind: Hi, I'm Matthew Kind. Every Monday, look for a fresh new episode where I'll take you behind the scenes and interview the insiders that are shaping the rapidly evolving cannabis industry. Learn more at cannainsider.com. That's C-A-N-N-Ainsider dot com. Now here's your program.

Today, we're going to learn how entrepreneurs are bringing pharmaceutical science to the cannabis world to create products that provide consistent and predictable benefits. I'm pleased to welcome Andreas Boeckl, CEO of Dispersa Labs to the show. Andreas, welcome to CannaInsider.

Andreas Boeckl: Thanks, Matt. It's really great to be here. 

Matthew Kind: Give us a sense of geography. Where in the world are you today?

Andreas Boeckl: Yes, sure. I'm sitting in San Leandro, California, which is just about five minutes south of Oakland, and I'm at our manufacturing facility.

Matthew: You don't meet a lot of Leandros anymore, do you? It's a name that's gone by the wayside. 

Andreas: No, it's fallen out of favor. Interesting observation.

Matthew: I want to bring that back, as well as Ezekiel and a few others. Can we work on that together?

Andreas: We can.

Matthew: Okay. Tell us, what is Dispersa Labs on a high level?

Andreas: Sure. Dispersa Labs uses pharmaceutical science and manufacturing practices really to harness the immense potential of cannabis. We engineer infused powders that we use to enable really new and improved ways of delivering these cannabinoids, forming them into doses that are more precise, predictable, and healthier. We're just positioning ourselves to launch our first product based on our technology that we're bringing to market, and it's called Sula Breathable Cannabis.

Matthew: Andreas, can you share a little bit about your background and journey and how you came to start Dispersa Labs and how you got into the cannabis space, and so forth?

Andreas: I'd be happy to. I started working in biotech and pharma, pretty much exactly 20 years ago this month, at a company that was fittingly called Inhale Therapeutics. It's here in the San Francisco Bay area as well. At that company, we developed the first FDA approved inhaled powder form of insulin for treating type two diabetes. Then that group went on to develop a few other dry powder inhaler products for other diseases. It was there that I really fell in love with the practice of engineering particles for inhalation.

Part of my core values is also helping people, wanting to be of service to others. I saw this as a purpose for me to be able to intervene, in my own little way, to help further the cause of addressing unmet medical needs to help patients live longer and healthier lives. Really, my entry into cannabis came a little later on when, in 2014, I joined forces with a market researcher and my co-founder whose name is David Cookson. We both understood at that time that there was a lot of therapeutic value in cannabinoids.

Also, that they hadn't quite served us personally well. Coupling our backgrounds, market research with this dry powder inhaler approach, we got together and just started hammering on some solutions and we are where we are today now, six years later. It's been a long journey.

Matthew: Yes. You're always working on powders, you've just pivoted and worked on powders in the cannabis space. Do you remember the aha moment with you and your co-founder where you're like, "I think this is what our product should be," and the reason why?

Andreas: The aha moment, there were some formative things that happened well before I met with David and we started along this journey in creating these powders. I guess it started back in college. I had a couple of pretty negative experiences with joints and THC, and it really got me to come to a conclusion that cannabis probably wasn't for me. It just didn't sit well with me and the outcomes weren't good. I didn't have a good time. I got that paranoid, anxious feeling and wanted to disappear from wherever I was.

A little bit later on, once I was working at Inhale, I found myself in a very stressful job, working in cleanrooms and working really long hours; but despite the physical fatigue, I was having great difficulty falling asleep and staying asleep. It was a real problem so I was a walking zombie at work. A colleague at the time pulled me aside and said, "You don't look well. What's going on?" I described the situation and she said, "Have you thought about trying cannabis?"

I said, "Diane, that really isn't for me. It doesn't work for me," and ran her through the story, the backstory. She said, "Well, you probably just consume too much. Why don't you just try just a tiny little puff and just see what happens?" I built up my courage, and I think it was a Friday night or something like that, to try this. I did what she said. I had a little one-hitter, and just took a tiny puff of some nice, kind herbs. I really got the first night solid sleep that I had probably in months, maybe in six months, and I woke up feeling totally refreshed.

It was then that light bulb went off over my head and it said, "Cannabis is medicine." It was also a time in California that medical cannabis became legal in about '96 so a few years before my little journey there. It's something that in the media, "Medical cannabis this--," and I always discounted that. It was really with that personal journey and that experience where I said, "This is real medicine," and it really changed my mind, just that one formative experience.

The other thing is in reflecting on my negative experiences, it also planted a seed of, "Hey, the dosing is just wrong. We need to be able to control this, entertain this molecule, and get that dosing right."

Matthew: Everybody's familiar with inhaling cannabis in the form of a joint like you mentioned. What really makes this better? Because we're probably overcoming a little bit of, I'll say, ignorance for the average consumer, where they're like, "Well, I'm not used to inhaling something. Why do I want to do this?" What do you tell them, Andreas?

Andreas: A lot of folks have a background like me, or they're just very reluctant to try cannabis because of a lot of the negatives that have been put out there over the multi-generations of disinformation about it. That fear, coupled with the way it's currently presented in many cases, "Smoke this joint, what's that going to do to me?" It's paralyzing to a lot of people. Sula is really the first true fixed dose of inhalable cannabinoids. What's contained within a single capsule, the powder that's contained in a capsule that's then inhaled, is a fixed-dose.

You can't get more than what's presented in that single dose. You could always take a second capsule if you want to, but it makes it what would be referred to as a standardized dosage form, which a lot of consumers are familiar with from pharmaceuticals or over-the-counter wellness products like supplements. One of the other things that makes it a lot better, in our view, is that it has this almost immediate effect and that comes with a healthier profile.

Also, because there's really no burning or heating associated with smoking or vaping. It also delivers a very balanced, well-rounded high for people who want to anticipate and control their experience on cannabis. Another advantage is really that the inhaler is just purely a mechanical device. There's no electronics involved. There's no heat sources. There are no risk of explosion in your pocket and there's no mess created by joints and other smokable forms, so it's a very tidy little system. It's also quite robust. It can fire hundreds of doses through a single inhaler so it's not a big burden on the waste stream that we're always also concerned about in industry these days.

Matthew: Okay. The pathway into the bloodstream is fast and efficient and then you pointed out predictable too which is really helpful for people that need to know what they're getting into. Maybe they're going to work, maybe they're even just going out with friends, but they want to know, "Hey, what's going to happen here?" And they can feel comfortable that they're going to get a very predictable outcome. You mentioned a little bit about how it feels, but how would you describe it in more detail? Give us more adjectives around that of how it feels maybe, and contrast that to other ways of consuming?

Andreas: Sure. Absolutely. We get a lot of people who right after inhaling their first dose of Sula say something like, "Wait, should I be feeling this already?" It's really surprisingly fast-acting and one of the great benefits for that fast onset of effect and where it's very useful is in patients who use this for treating anxiety, pain, sleep, seizures, and more conditions where really fast-acting medicines is what's in order. Who wants to wait for relief from those symptoms for an hour or two, which is common with orally ingested products? Another piece of feedback in terms of the effect that people feel is that it's a very clean high. I guess less of the fog and just a very clean experience.

Matthew: With the plant, you know you're getting THC and the full-spectrum cannabinoids, but you don't know what else you're getting too on top of it. You've got plant material and when you combust that, what exactly is happening there? So remove some variables.

Andreas: Indeed.

Matthew: Okay, so let's just define a few things. Can you describe what spray drying is?

Andreas: Yes, so spray drying is the process that we use to manufacture our powders. It's a simple single-step and very scalable manufacturing process that is utilized across a number of industries; foods, cosmetics, basic materials, nutraceuticals, pharma, including other dry powder inhaler type applications, and it's just a simple process where there are three unit operations. First one is atomization, where we create these tiny droplets that are on a micron scale. Then those droplets are dried within a chamber that looks like a fermenter if people are familiar with brewing these days and what a microbrewery looks like.

It looks like one of those big stainless steel vessels. It's a drying chamber where those little tiny droplets then interact with hot filtered air. That's where the liquid, which carries the drug and also our inactive but functional ingredients which we call excipients, are converted into a powder and then that powder goes into the third unit operation which is the collection of that powder. That's the third step where we concentrate and collect that powder in bulk

Spray drying allows to have great control over the size, shape, and composition of these powders. Pretty much unlike any other process that's out there. It's probably why it's so broadly used across industries.

Matthew: How about aerosol particles? How do you get cannabinoids in there? Can you just describe what aerosol particles are and then how you get the cannabinoids in there, so people can get a visual?

Andreas: Yes, so aerosol is derived from aero-solution which it's short for that. It essentially describes particles that are small enough to remain suspended or entrained in air. Some common examples of aerosols include fog, morning fog, some dust, or smoke is something we're also familiar with that would qualify as an aerosol. Basically, the aerodynamic forces on these tiny particles trump or far exceed the gravitational forces on the particles because of their size.

The science is really fascinating and it's the rabbit hole I fell into many, [chuckles] many years ago; but it's basically tiny, tiny particles that respond more to forces that are in the air versus gravity. They don't fall to the ground very quickly, and some of these aerosol particles can remain suspended in the air for days and weeks depending on what's going on with winds blowing around. We're all familiar with dusting our homes and stuff like that. Those would be aerosol particles that are conveyed around through the atmosphere end up on our coffee tables.

Matthew: There's other kinds of inhalants on the market people have probably seen. Can you talk a little bit about those? They're not cannabis but how do people use those, and is it pretty much the same modality then as what you're describing here with Sula?

Andreas: Yes, sure. There are currently dozens of inhalation medicines that are on the market for treating a wide range or widening range of medical conditions. Still, most of those target diseases of the lung or localized treatment of the lung such as asthma, COPD, but they're also used for treating lung infections that are common in cystic fibrosis. I guess a brand name that most people might be familiar with for a dry powder inhaler is Advair. I think we've all seen TV spots on Advair.

Matthew: This is not a new technology but a repurposed technology. Are prospective customers comfortable with this type of product out of the gate or how do you get them comfortable to the point where they're saying, "All right, I want this to be my default medicine or recreational device."?

Andreas: Right. Yes, so most consumers, unless they have some sort of asthma or COPD, they're probably not that familiar with inhaling medications and it does cause a little bit of worry I guess. It does require some education on our part and we're gearing up to do that with some webinars and things like that. Getting the information to people who we want to interact with us and get the straight story on what the benefits of inhaling dry powders are. On a really high level, when you think about smoking or vaping, you're technically inhaling particles still.

It's just that they're really, really like an order of magnitude smaller than what we're delivering, so kind of in the 200 to 300 nanometer size range versus we're in the 1 to 5 micron size range. The other difference with smoking or vaping, there's heating and combustion which as you alluded to earlier creates a cocktail of chemicals that is definitely not listed on the label of those products.

That soup includes some known carcinogens so we really try to educate folks on that. "Here, we have a product that has been formulated very specifically and with exact same specifications to ensure healthy outcomes. The last thing we want to do is have folks who are already battling some sort of disease state add further insult to their biology and harm their wellbeing. While they're treating one symptom, they might be creating new ones."

We have our four non-cannabis excipients or functional ingredients listed proudly on our package so consumers know exactly what they're inhaling into their lungs. We consider this really to be the first open-label inhalation product on the market, and all the trends in the marketplace also support this sort of development because more and more people are shopping for organic foods. The whole foods revolution is definitely a major thing and a movement at this point.

Also, I haven't mentioned, with COVID happening, awareness of protecting lung health has really also been goosed, and more and more folks are looking for alternatives to smoking and vaping because it does cause concerns and for the potential susceptibility to more extreme or severe COVID implications.

Matthew: Is this engineered to bypass the airways, like cough reflex then, or how do you think about the cough reflex? How does that work? I didn't form that question articulately.

Andreas: Yes, so we've really taken a lot of care to engineer the particles so that they largely bypass the upper airways, but it's a numbers game at some point. If you're inhaling in the cases of our initial product, 10 milligrams of powder, that's not 10 milligrams of just THC but 10 milligrams of powder which contains 1 milligram of THC. There's a chance that a number of those particles are going to interact with those upper airways and this can cause spontaneous cough.

We consider that to be a minor adverse event in the clinical realm. It seems to be most common in patients who are smoke or vape naive and also those who have never been familiar with the use of an inhaler. One of the things that we also educate on is that for those folks who do experience cough, it tends to go away with familiarity and improvement of the inhalation maneuver. Practice makes perfect and most folks report that within three to five tries, they've got it down and they're no longer having that minor spontaneous cough.

Then I guess it's also probably worth mentioning that most people cough the first time that they take a drag off a joint or hit a bong as they say. That's because cannabinoids are irritants. They're very bitter in taste profile. That cough response is triggered by sensory neurons in the upper airways that interact with those bitter molecules and so you get cough. I guess if the juice is worth the squeeze, people will continue.

Matthew: We touched on this a little bit, but just to draw a clear contrast: This is different than vaping, A, because there's no heating element, it's just a mechanical spray. The size is different, and how about in terms of what stays in versus what's exhaled?

Andreas: Great question. As you mentioned, there's no heating or combustion and those are the reactions that create what we perceive as smoke. It's actually a mixture of solids, oils, some tars, and some gases. They're literally made up of hundreds of chemicals, and in smoking and vaping, it creates particles around 200-300 nanometers in size. What we know is that those particles are generally too small to interact with the mucosa in the lungs and then stick.

What we see is very common when people smoke or vape is a huge plume of secondhand smoke that comes out, or fugitive aerosol as some scientists like to call it, that comes out of their mouths when they exhale. Some people take great pride in and make these big, beautiful clouds but that's really waste. It's just going off into the environment.

What we know from the science is that the ideal particle size for optimal lung deposition is between 1 and 5 micrometers or microns. It's about an order of magnitude larger than the smoke or vape. That's a long way of saying that we get about 80% of what's in the capsule into the lungs, whereas smoking or vaping, on a good day, that's 15%. We flip that efficiency upside down with our approach.

Matthew: In terms of like a continuum of being discreet, where does this fall compared to other options out there?

Andreas: In terms of inhalation, we think that this is by far the most discreet method for consuming cannabinoids. Largely because none of the signature odors that are associated with combustion or heating are really generated, that signature smell. One of our friends in the industry trial, this is not too long ago, said, "Wow, that was like an invisible bong rip."

Literally, nothing comes out. We do coach about a two to three second breath-hold because if someone who's familiar with vaping or smoking and is used to seeing a cloud of smoke come out, if they immediately exhale after inhaling a Sula dose, you will see the particles come out; but if you just practice a two to three second breath hold, you get that 80% lung deposition.

I would just add to that, that because of the discreet nature, we have a form that delivers on that fast-acting relief component, but also really frees people up to use cannabis in all sorts of settings where it was previously impossible. You can even think of settings like hospitals, for example, where you can't vapor smoke in a hospital. If you want quick relief and use cannabinoids, here's a way you could do that. There are plenty of other settings. I'm sure everyone can let their imaginations run wild.

Matthew: Mine is running wild right now. I picture myself right about to reach the summit on a rollercoaster and pulling it out.

Andreas: That would be a different experience for sure.

Matthew: Let's talk about the amount of THC you put in one dose and how you arrived at that.

Andreas: Through our proprietary formulation and powder production and capsule filling processes, we really have tremendous control over how much THC we put into each dose. It was based on a significant amount of trialing that we did with folks, that we arrived on one milligram of THC for our launch product. The feedback we got was about 60% of trialers said that was the perfect dose for them. We really do want to give people what they say-- Honor their feedback and give them something that is a nice functional dose.

Matthew: What do you think people are using this for? Is it primarily general wellness, or how would you describe its use case spectrum?

Andreas: We consider the initial THC launch product to be a wellness dose, and that feedback I was just referring to corroborates that. People use it as they would any other THC-forward product. By now, people who are familiar with THC or know what they want to use it for and when to use it, the predictability and that discreet dosing really enable busy people to fit cannabis into their lifestyles.

For example, someone who has a two to three hour window before they got to go drive somewhere or perform some tasks that require maybe a little more mental acuity or agility, they can find that two or three hours and know that Sula will fit within that window and they'll be completely back to their normal state at the end of that session. Whereas other forms, it's a little bit more guesswork involved, and you have to free up probably a little bit more time to budget for any excursions from your ideal dosing regimen.

Matthew: People are thinking like, "One milligram? Hey, as rookie cookie is five milligrams. How can this be?" But it's really like the precision medical process where it's an exact fit, like hitting a target. It's like a bulls-eye compared to maybe a hit from a joint being somewhere on the dart board but not a perfect bulls-eye. Would you say that's a good analogy, or did I just take a hit from one of your devices and now nothing make sense?

Andreas: [laughs] That's a great way of thinking of it. It's really this benefit of the very efficient delivery approach that we have that gets it directly into the bloodstream quickly. You mentioned a cookie. That's going to go through the liver. It's going to go through first-pass metabolism. Absorption of cannabinoids through the gastrointestinal system is really low. There are metabolites are generated in the case of THC, which are probably responsible for the reason why people say edibles feel differently. It's probably because it's a different compound that's at work there. It's most likely one of a couple-- I guess the one that's most researched is 11-Hydroxy-THC, which is allegedly something like up to 10 times as psychotropic as Delta-9 THC.

In our case, we're actually delivering the THC directly to the bloodstream and then it goes directly to the brain and then all the receptors. It does feel like 5 to 10 milligrams of a dose taken by other methods. It really does surprise a lot of people the first time they try it.

Matthew: What about intellectual property? Do you have any patents on this tech?

Andreas: Yes. There are a lot of companies out there that have a patent-pending. We're one of the few companies out there with an actual granted patent that covers our formulation process and some of the unique qualities that we impart on our spray-dried cannabinoid powders. We're very active in filing additional claims to build a beachhead around our core IP.

Matthew: Now, there's some early research that suggests but hasn't yet been proven that cannabinoids may help people recover from COVID-19. Can you talk about that a little bit?

Andreas: This is really early and it's data that's generated in a mouse study, so it's not human data. The caveat is jumping from mice to humans isn't always a linear outcome. This is research that came out in the spring out of the University of South Carolina and it really got my attention because they dose these mice with a pathogen that induces a cytokine storm, which a lot of us have heard about or are familiar with. Which then creates a condition called Acute Respiratory Distress Syndrome or ARDS. That's really similar to what happens for some human COVID patients. In the case of these mice, this induced cytokine storm and ARDS results in significant mortality in those mice. They pretty much always die. The mice in this study were all given the pathogen to induce that lethal condition and one of the cohorts was given placebo while the other one was treated with THC.

What the investigators found was that all of the rodent patients who got the THC treatment actually survived. Whereas all the ones that were in the placebo died basically. Again, I would just caution that it's very early, but I think it's really interesting and it speaks to what a lot of subject matter experts in the clinical space of cannabinoids have been talking about how certain cannabinoids can help modulate homeostasis.

What we see with things like the cytokine storm and ARDS is a runaway system where a body starts attacking itself because of this distress. If we can intervene with cannabinoids that remind the audience; very few side effects, no non-lethal dose, we can potentially have a way of treating not only COVID, which I hope we'll have a successful vaccine here in the near future, but potentially other pathogens that come our way in the future. It'd be a great tool to have in our toolkit if so needed.

Matthew: Where are you in the capital-raising process, Andreas?

Andreas: As I mentioned, we've been doing this for six years. We're really playing the long game and committed to getting this important medicine to all those who need it. We've been working hard towards a Series A, which we see unfolding toward the end of next year, but we've just opened a bridge round to get a couple of new skews on the market that I'm really excited about.

We've got a sleep formula that seems to be very effective in some limited trialing and then a CBD version of Sula that some folks have been using to treat anxiety actually related to COVID. What's interesting is it's been pretty solid feedback on that as well. Folks saying that it's the first CBD product that they can actually feel, that it's working, and it's probably because of just that novel inhalation route and its fast-acting nature, but it doesn't go through the gut, as I mentioned earlier, and go through first-pass metabolism.

Again, very small doses may prove to be effective, like one milligram or a two-milligram dose of CBD, whereas others, a lot of products out there on the market are delivering 20 or more milligrams.

Matthew: I love this stuff. Now for accredited investors that are listening, can they participate in your capital raising rounds or how does that work?

Andreas: Yes, only accredited investors at this point and they can just interact with us through our website. It's breathesula.com. It's B-R-E-A-T-H-E-S-U-L-A.com. We have a contact form there, or they're welcome to send us an email at info@dispersalabs.com. That's D-I-S-P-E-R-S-A-L-A-B-S.com.

Matthew: Well, Andrea's, I'd like to go to some personal development questions with that. Is there a book that's had a big impact on your life or way of thinking you'd like to share?

Andreas: Oh, yes, sure. These days I've got a little one at home and with entrepreneurship being what it is and wanting to spend as much time as I can with the little guy. Most of my reading of late has been things like Goodnight Moon or Dr. Seuss and the such, but I guess in terms of impact, I guess I'm going to have to stick with the Dr. Seuss. I think a lot of his prose speak directly to a lot of the serious challenges that humanity faces today. The Lorax is a prime example of that. I think it's time for all of us to stand up and speak for the trees.

Matthew: Okay, and what do you think the most interesting thing going on in your field is besides what you're doing?

Andreas: I guess in dry powder inhalation, there's a lot of new interest in R&D in this space, and some of that is definitely directly correlated to COVID. Folks are really primed to understand what's going on in the lungs and how we can administer medications to the lungs.

I think getting drugs to the lungs offers really some great opportunities to treat both diseases that affect the lungs, but then also more systemic conditions, and that's what we're doing with the cannabinoids. Because of this efficiency of the route of administration that I talked about earlier, researchers really have an opportunity here to reduce dose size and by doing this, we can reduce side effects compared to traditionally more orally ingested drug forms, I guess.

This way, we can maximize the reward while minimizing risk to patients. I'll just add to that some of the research into psychedelics such as psilocybin, LSD, and DMT are really compelling. I think it's also really exciting because these are some serious unmet needs and societal problems that these compounds seem well-suited to address.

PTSD, anxiety, all kinds of psychological disorders, and a lot of those things are the things that plague us societally. I think because the potency of those compounds, it represents really a great opportunity for standardized dosages that are delivered to the lungs by a dry powder inhaler, quite frankly. There's a lot of research in that space right now and we're happy to be a part of that.

Matthew: LSD seems like you could microdose with an inhaler. That seems like that makes sense because it's a chemical you can make into an aerosol, but how would you do that with psilocybin?

Andreas: The same thing. It just needs to get into the bloodstream. A lot of people who are experts in the area of psilocybin and other entheogens like that talk about different levels of experience, like level one through five.

We can envision a version of a dry powder inhaler that's a fixed-dose like this where a capsule equals a level. If you need to have a level one experience, you take one capsule. If you need to have a level five experience, maybe you take five capsules, or maybe you just develop a capsule that has the level five potency in it.

These are very, very powerful drugs that require micrograms versus milligrams in many cases. There's a lot of room in those tiny capsules to present a lot of different dosages to patients.

Matthew: Is there a room for like a rescue aerosol inhaler where you get too high or maybe you took too much psilocybin or LSD and you're like, "Holy cow, I need to turn down the volume on this." Do you ever think about that?

Andreas: We have. Yes, absolutely. It's something that there's definitely an unmet need there. We're not quite there yet in terms of knowing exactly what combination of molecules is going to switch off those effects that we might want to attenuate in those cases, but there's definitely an unmet need, and where there's an unmet need, there's going to be some innovations. If folks have ideas about what might do that job, we'd be very interested in talking to them about opportunities.

Matthew: What's one thought you have that most people would disagree with you on? It can be about anything.

Andreas: I think a lot about the human condition and society and how all these constructs; the life we live and what we participate in and consider normal is largely a construct. In thinking about compounds and things that we consume, there's really a continuum when we think about things like cannabis.

I'll give you an example of alcohol. Alcohol, everyone just assumes, "Okay, well, this is something net-negative but it's something that people really have latched onto and have many people use it daily." I would argue that a lot of that use is medicinal, people use it to unplug, switch off, to table the stressors of a day, of which today we have more and more of those.

I think a lot of these things are on a more of a continuum. We do ourselves a disservice by labeling them as, "Well, this is medicinal," or, "This is recreational." I think there's a big grey area in-between where people derive benefits from, and I'll jump back to cannabinoids here. I resist the idea of just saying, "This is a medical use," or, "This is a recreational use." I think there's this grey area in-between it's a beautiful space to ponder. I think someone who comes home from a stressful day and pours themselves a martini or has a glass of wine, I think that's a medicinal use of alcohol.

Matthew: Yes, I agree with that. When someone says that another person is a piece of work, we know what that means. Are you a piece of work Andreas?

Andreas: [laughs].

Matthew: You don't have to answer that. I'm just kidding around with you. [laughs]

Andreas: I like that. The answer is yes. My wife would say, "Yes, you're a piece of work."

Matthew: Andreas, as we close, can you tell listeners how to find your products and also accredited investors? Just remind them how to connect with you.

Andreas: Yes, so right now we're actually about to launch with some delivery services that we're courting. We're not quite there yet in terms of a deal, but our goal is to get this into consumer's hands via delivery services, and then also select dispensaries, and we've had some great outreach in our direction recently about this as awareness of Sula, this option of dry powder inhaler, kind of makes the rounds. Yes, and folks can absolutely reach out to us either via the breathesula.com website and the contact form there or info@dispersalabs.com

Matthew: Andreas, thanks so much for coming on the show and educating us. Have a great holiday season, and we look forward to chatting with you in 2021.

Andreas: What a pleasure, Matt. I'd love to come back and talk about some of the innovations we've got coming up.

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