New Cannabis Grow Room Techwith Vincent Harkiewicz

Vincent Harkiewicz Grownetics

Vincent Harkiewicz is the co-founder and COO of Grownetics a company building the cannabis grow rooms of tomorrow. Vincent shares why if you are not investing your time, money and energy into a perfectly automated and intelligent grow you are missing out on priceless data about your plants and what they need to thrive.

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Key Takeaways:

[0:55] – What is Grownetics
[1:10] – Vincent’s background
[2:59] – Vincent compares and contrasts a typical grow to an optimized grow
[6:11] – Vincent explains how Grownetic sensors work
[8:57] – How much does temperature and humidity affect plants
[9:48] – What are Quantum and Par Sensors
[11:24] – Vincent’s lighting recommendations
[13:40] – What growers like about Grownetics
[15:31] – What do business owners like about Grownetics
[16:36] – Collecting data at a plant level
[17:20] – Is data shared with other Grownetics customers
[17:42] – How does Grownetics help with pests
[19:50] – How does Grownetics help with energy conservation
[21:16] – How is Grownetics unique
[22:29] – Vincent talks about the cost of Grownetics
[27:54] – Vincent answers some personal development questions
[33:42] – Contact details for Grownetics

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The cannabis cultivators of 2018 and beyond that embrace emerging technologies to optimize their harvest will be the winners, both in profitability and delighting their customers. Here to tell us all about the latest in grow room technology is Vincent Harkiewcz, Co-Founder of Grownetics. Vincent, welcome to CannaInsider.

Vincent: Hey Matt, thanks for having me.

Matthew: Give us a sense of geography. Where are you in the world today?

Vincent: I am talking you from the sunny Boulder, Colorado.

Matthew: Okay, and what is Grownetics at a very high level for people that haven’t heard of it?

Vincent: Essentially it’s the operating system for indoor farmers and greenhouses. What we’ve built is a way to learn how to grow every plant better.

Matthew: What were you doing before Grownetics? What inspired you to start this business with Eli?

Vincent: So, before Grownetics I was actually living in Shanghi, China. I had a design and sourcing business out there where I was doing manufacturing and industrial design, and quickly realized that most of the way that we build things today is very polluting. A lot of the products I was designing ended up, you know, designed to be for designed obsolescence. Ending up in landfills and whatnot. So, I quickly decided to get out of there plus there was a ton of air pollution, food pollution, water pollution and kind of a sign of things to come. So, I started focusing on sustainable development techniques. Looking at how we could take advanced manufacturing practices from companies like Toyota and applying it to sustainable development.

When I came to Boulder to start a new venture I met Eli, and the two of basically hit it off with his commercial cultivation experience in cannabis and my experience in production and operating systems. Yeah, we decided to build a system that actually learns how to grow ever plant better, and that’s what we’ve done.

Matthew: That’s awesome. So, you and Eli partnered and how long ago was that, when you created Grownetics?

Vincent: We met about two and a half, a little over two and a half years ago now, and the company has been running now for about two years.

Matthew: I think a good way to set the stage here is walk through how a traditional grow that’s not optimized for technology or controls looks and then contrast that to one that would a typical or expected grow room with the latest technology including Grownetics. Would you mind doing that for us?

Vincent: Yeah absolutely. We see a lot of grows, and typically a standard grow without technology is the majority of grows unfortunately. Typically you’d be having typical HPS lights, street lights, inside their growing plants, and you would have everything manually done, hand watered, typically pots on the ground, soil pots on the ground in a warehouse. Basically like you just threw up a warehouse and threw some pots in there and called it a day.

You can still grow very high quality product out of a grow like that, especially with a skilled cultivator with is finger on the pulse of all those plants, but it’s going to be incredibly incredibly inefficient. Essentially that way of cultivating is just not going to last. We’ve already seen it with the price crunch here in Colorado.

Matthew: Tell us about that price crunch a little bit. When did that start, and what’s happening with it?

Vincent: So, I’d say it’s been really going on a little over a year now, maybe a year and a half. The market here is very mature, and that’s one of the things that makes cannabis businesses so successful in Colorado is good regulations and the maturity in the marketplace. What that also brings is competition. We’ve seen a lot of struggle with regulations as they come out. People taking their early investments and investing in essentially what they thought was going to be a cash cow and not planning enough on thinking about operational efficiency. So, not being able to meet that demand and meet that price drop that we’re seeing from a lot of these larger wholesalers and a lot of these larger growers.

Matthew: Yes, it’s something I’ve been talking about for a couple of years now that this is another commodity in a sense. Some people are kind of craft, small batch and they have a narrative or fans around their particular style of growing, but most people don’t fall into that bucket, and they want just cheap, good, high quality buds. So, there’s going to be a problem for people that don’t have a unique selling proposition or have really invested in the technology. Some people say, everybody will invest in the technology and it won’t be in an advantage, but in my experience most people don’t. They’re always lagging. If you just make the commitment of saying, I want to be in the top 10 percent or 20 percent of people that are investing in technology and my operations and controls, you’ll be in good shape, because most people don’t have that level of commitment.

Vincent: Hundred percent, hundred percent. It takes that operational mindset and the idea of where do you want to be in three years or five years. Are you still going to be growing in your 10,000 square foot or are you going to have a whole plan to have an R&D facility in that 10,000 square foot and then scale this thing up to multiple facilities, highly efficiently.

Matthew: I want to talk a little bit about sensors, because Grownetics is largely about data and using data, but how do you accumulate that data? It’s through sensors and different means. Where are the sensors placed in a grow, and what should we know about those?

Vincent: Essentially what we built to gather that data, you know, data is the most important thing for us. High quality, qualified data, and that’s why we focus on the enterprise and not consumers to begin with is that we could be providing real recommendations based on the highest quality data, but what we found was that it was prohibitive before we started. It as prohibitive to get high quality data because the sensors that people were deploying were just too expensive to really deploy at scale.

So, what we did was we started by building an open sensor platform. What that means is we can integrate any number of sensors that are on the market. This comes from my experience in China where essentially sensors are an off-the-shelf commodity. It’s all the middle men that jack up the price. We decided to create an open sensor platform and then quickly realized there was not a temperature, humidity and CO2 sensor or an atmospheric chemistry sensor that was cheap enough that we could really deploy at scale. So, what we built was our own high resolution sensor array. This is the key to the base sensor platform for a Grownetics enabled facility. That’s our 3-D Microclimate Sensors.

Essentially what it is is a five sensor array, and we have one combo temperature/humidity sensor that goes at the soil level. Then we have a combo temperature/humidity and CO2 sensor that goes at the mid to top of canopy level. These are typically mounted on the vertical stanchions on the rolling benches. They can also be suspended from the lighting supports. We can mount them any number of ways. Essentially that gives us a real good idea of what the 3-D Microclimates are in these cultivations room, so we can give you essentially an indoor weather map of your grow. Then with all that ocean of data, it’s not valuable unless it’s actually correlated to batches and plants and that’s the magic of the Grownetics system is we actually automatically correlate every single microclimate to the individual plants that are in that microclimate.

Matthew: The microclimates you’re mentioning are kind of stratifications, I guess, you’re looking at vertically of different temperatures. If you’re not aware of how much the temperature and humidity can stratify, how big a difference are we talking about here and how much does that affect plants?

Vincent: So, for a typical grow, not a vertical grow it can be dramatic. Essentially what you’d be finding is any issues with your airflow in the room. So, when you have a stratified room essentially what you have is pockets of really high heat air right between the light and the plants, and this could be due to light level. It could be to the position of the oscillating fans. It can be due to the position of the HVAC system, the inlets and outlets. So, there’s any number of reasons why you could have issues with the microclimates in your room and airflow. So, this really allows us to give you an x-ray vision to see what’s actually going on in a three dimensional fashion in that room.

Matthew: Give us a little background. What is Quantum and PAR sensors? What are those two terms and why are they important?

Vincent: Essentially a PAR sensor, PAR stands for Photosynthetic Active Radiation. So, essentially what photons, what kind of energy level the plants are actually receiving to do their photo synthesis. Quantum sensor is another name for a PAR sensor. Essentially it’s giving us the amount of particles and waves that are hitting a particular point from the sun. So, we use PAR sensors to really get a sense of are our lights functioning optimally in an indoor environment? Are we getting that even amount of micromoles hitting the surface of the plants? Then when we’re doing any kind of supplemental lighting or dimming or spectral control we always want to be using PAR sensors to be giving us that baseline to make sure we’re hitting the numbers were expecting. We’re actually seeing the way the plant sees, because our human vision only sees a very narrow band of visible light, where the plant actually sees a very wide spectrum of light. We want to make sure we’re capturing all of that that the human eye cannot see.

Especially this is important for greenhouses where we’re doing supplemental lighting and special control with either dimming or with LED lights so that we can say, okay you’re plants are getting this consistent level of PAR throughout the day, throughout their lifecycle.

Matthew: So many people are curious about lights. How do you evaluate lights and what are your favorite kinds now? What do you advise clients in terms of lights?

Vincent: So, double-ended is the norm and very efficient innovation on the traditional HPS bulbs, and very cost effective. So, for production facilities HPS double-ended is really a great solution. Just make sure you’re dimming those based on any incoming sunlight. You have a really efficient lighting system there. Now it is going to be pretty hot. The future is really going to be LEDs. The research being done, besides the medical research being done in the industry, is lighting research. A lot of discoveries are coming out almost, it seems like, monthly on different lighting wavelengths and how they affect resin production or the cannabinoid production in the plant.

So, one of the things that we discovered through our lighting studies was that if you use the far red LED on, let’s say, heliospectra light, two weeks into the flower cycle you can actually shorten that flower cycle. You don’t need to have that LED on for the entire lifecycle of the plant, therefore saving energy. You turn that sucker on two weeks into flower and all of a sudden you get heightened resin production. It kind of tricks the plant into thinking it’s Fall. You get a lot higher quality product, and that’s only the beginning. There’s a lot more room in lighting research to be done. When it comes to that point LED will start to become the norm in these grows, because we can do spectral control of LEDs, and we can also do… it’s much more efficient. We’re just waiting for that price drop to come.

Matthew: Yeah, a lot of promise there with the LEDs. I’ll be curious to see what happens over the next year or two. Let’s look at two different roles here; the business owner and the grower. A lot of times that’s the same person, but let’s just assume it’s two different roles. What does the grower like best about Grownetics? Where does it help them the most? What’s their feedback in terms of Grownetics really helps me with X the most? Where do they really light up when you provide them with information or what it does for their business?

Vincent: So, I’d say for the grower it would absolutely be the peace of mind for the alerting system, because essentially we can monitor everything in a facility, and monitor all the circuits related to all the major cultivation systems. If your chiller goes out, you get a phone call and a text message and an email. So, it will actually wake you up in the middle of the night instead of just a text message, which you might ignore. That would be number one for sure is peace of mind through our open controls and sensing platform.

Number two would be it’s kind of like x-ray vision for growers. Instead of needing to run around and basically deal with looking at all these little thermometers all around that they’ve hung up, essentially it lets them monitor a much larger square footage or amount of plants in a very intuitive and easy way. So, they can see what exactly is actually going on in the room. Whereas previously you basically would take a thermostat , and if you’re lucky a smart temperature sensor and basically over the course of a few days move it to different parts of the room to try to get a sense of what’s actually going on. Of course it’s a very poor way to get a sense of all those changes going on in there throughout the day. Our sensor system allows you log every ten seconds. So, it allows you to even see if someone opened a door.

Matthew: Okay, so it’s the peace of mind. Obviously getting rid of the things or mitigating the things that could destroy your whole business first. Got that taken care of. Let’s dial in all the other benefits. That makes sense. What about the business owner? What does he or she get the most out of Grownetics when they look at it for the first time or looking at the dashboard? What would you say their top one or two benefits are?

Vincent: Well I’d say for the business owner, with that operational mindset, it’s going to be for the first time you actually have a tool to run your whole cultivation business. It’s finally I have a tool to bring together all the different aspects of growing into one interface where I can start to create reports based on what’s actually working across batches, looking at my batch archives. Also it helps them actually get the grower’s notes out of their notebook and into a centralized system that can be used across multiple facilities. So, the owners really like this because they can say, okay if one grower cracks the code in this facility for a particular variety or strain, I can now just push that recipe over to this other facility and give it to this other grower, and we can continually optimize not only one site, but multiple sites.

Matthew: Very interesting. Can you collect data on a plant level? We talked about microclimates and zones and so forth, but is it possible to get to that level of granularity?

Vincent: We already do. All data goes down to every individual plant in the facility. Now the way that we do that, you’re right, it’s a little challenging to say, we’re going to stick a sensor in every plant. We do that for research customer, but it’s not practical for a production facility. So, what we do is for production facilities we say okay, let’s say what microclimate is this plant in, and then we say, what sensors are in that locale and then let’s link that sensor data to that individual plant. That’s where individual plant tracking enables us to do.

Matthew: Now, is the data shared with other Grownetics customers? Is anatomized and shared or how does that work?

Vincent: Absolutely not. All the data is private, very highly secured and kept to each individual customer. We absolutely never share cultivation data across customers whatsoever and that’s part of our service agreement.

Matthew: How about pests? We talked about things that can destroy your business. How about pests? How does Grownetics help with those?

Vincent: So, that’s one of the biggest challenges. In pest management you have integrated pest management. IPM as it’s known. In its most simplest way, the way it was described to me is you can think of IPM as a triangle. In order for a pest to be in a grow room, it’s going to need one of three things. It’s going to need either the food that it eats. It’s going to need a conducive environment to exist and reproduce, and it’s going to need the pest itself. So, the pest has to actually get there. Of those three things what we can already do is say, is the environment conducive to these pests and start to give alerts based on microclimates that do become conducive to harboring these pests.

So, that’s one way we can already do pest mitigation in a preventative kind of fashion. So, you can make sure your environments are constantly dialed in to prevent that from even occurring. Now once it has occurred, then what you’re going to want to do is do your traditional IPM measures, and then continue to monitor during that time. If that environment goes back into being conducive for that pest. As a tool it’s just a much higher resolution way of seeing what’s going on in all your plants.

Matthew: What pests do you see the most? What was the most common environment that’s being created for a pest?

Vincent: Well, thankfully a lot of the grows we go into our customers don’t have too much of an issue with that. They have good IPM protocols and Grownetics. So, not too many pests that I see, but when I do I’d say it would be spider mites and powdery mildew would be the most common.

Matthew: Now we talked a little bit about energy with LEDs and so forth, but how does Grownetics help in monitoring or understanding energy use, because obviously that’s a huge input cost that weighs on a business’s profitability. How does Grownetics help with that?

Vincent: Right, so, from day one we’re trying to make facilities more efficient, and in order to do that it’s important that we not only spec in the most efficient equipment and systems, but also monitor to see that they’re actually meeting those expectations. And so, we install CT sensors, which are essentially, you know, every circuit that’s related to cultivating we’ll put these CT sensors on, and we can start to do things. Not only efficiency metrics but also do predictive maintenance. So, we can say is this piece of equipment acting like it was when it was new, or is it all of a sudden drawing and abnormal amount of power. You need to get eyes on it before it fails.

So, that’s one element of the energy monitoring besides just the efficiency gains and efficiency modeling. Essentially at the end of the year you want to know how your facility did, and we’re involved the Resource Innovation Institute as well to help to create an efficiency model for cultivators. For them to not only understand what are the most impactful parts of their business and operations, but how they compare against other cultivators across the country.

Matthew: How would you say Grownetics compares with some other solutions out there? Say Smart Bee or any others.

Vincent: Smart Bee is essentially smart sensing and thermostats with some logging. There’s LaCrosse is a famous one as well where you can get basically an app for a thermometer. Essentially Grownetics is dramatically different. So, on the sensor side we do have our own sensors, but we also integrate third party sensors. Essentially the difference here is that Grownetics actually correlates data to every individual plant for you, thus helping you take your data and actually make it valuable. Beyond all the other things we spoke about in terms of control systems, in terms of efficiency management, in terms of operational management, workflow management, task management, any number of other things related to operating a cultivation facility.

Matthew: Let’s try to understand cost here, for people that are listening. Like, oh great I like Grownetics, but what’s it going to cost me. Will I be able to afford it. So, let’s talk about the cost and maybe savings, or how it can help optimize looking at say a 10,000 square foot grow and a 50,000 square foot grow. How much would you say… what are the different options in terms of price packages to get into Grownetics?

Vincent: So, for 10,000 square feet it would be anywhere from $30k to $50k, depending on how many sensors you wanted to deploy. Obviously an R&D facility is going to deploy a lot more sensors than a production facility. Now I do want to talk a little bit about how quickly this is changing though. Facility design as we know it today is changing very quickly. The research that we’ve done over the past few years has shown us that the current cultivation models are incredibly inefficient compared to what’s actually possible with other technologies that’s already existing. So, when I say that that’s based on, those pricing models are based on deploying sensors and control systems.

We’re starting to see a demand for whole facility design. So, that’s something we’re already participating in a well is helping to spec out really what the grow facility of future is going to look like, with Grownetics as essentially the nervous system for that.

Matthew: Yeah, I mean, I could see it seems like more states are becoming open to greenhouse growing. At first they want to lock it down in an underground bunker like it’s plutonium, but then it’s like, hey maybe it’s not the best use of our electricity resources to be doing that. Are you thinking it’s going to be more natural-like coming into grows?

Vincent: Yeah, whether it’s natural light in a greenhouse or bringing in supplemental sunlight into an indoor grow, there’s any number of ways that we can already dramatically reduce energy usage. I mean, the research we’ve done has shown that we can reduce energy usage over 90 percent compared to a traditional inefficient, indoor grow just by using existing technology off the shelf. That is incredibly dramatic and people are still unaware and uninformed about this stuff. So, that’s what we’re going to be trying to do is help to inform people there’s much more efficient ways to be growing the highest quality cannabis, and we have the systems and technology to do it.

In terms of greenhouse, I do understand the concerns, the smell concerns some municipalities might have. So, the direction we really want to take with greenhouses is towards the hybrid greenhouse model. The reason I say this, even for areas where you can grow with traditional greenhouses is something I learned from my time in China. I did a lot of study into air pollution and air quality. I did a lot of sourcing in filtration, air filtration and any number of filtration systems. Now, even if you have a beautiful organic crop in a greenhouse, if it’s next to a highway, you’re going to have heavy metals in that crop. This is something that people don’t really talk about or acknowledge. It turns out a lot of the beautiful organic produce that we consume is contaminated with heavy metals from exhaust fumes.

You can look at another example with northern California with the wildfires. Greenhouse cultivators up north, if they didn’t have a sealed environment, are dealing with massive pollution, smoke pollution of their crops. So, this is why I think moving forward really the norm should be a hybrid style greenhouses with air filtration in a controlled environment.

Matthew: Yeah, that was quite a situation with the fires up there. Oh my gosh. That’s crazy.

Vincent: It was so devastating and then Los Angeles as well. California’s been really in a bad place this year from the natural environment side of things.

Matthew: I think it’s important to not only talk about what’s possible now, but even to just have mental exercises about what’s possible in terms of just daydreaming. What would an ideal grow look like? If you could wave a magic wand and create a technology that doesn’t yet exist for the grow room, what technology would you create?

Vincent: So, I will tell you that we are already creating those technologies and I can’t really talk about them. I will tell you it has to do with the greenhouse space.

Matthew: Okay. Once that gets created, you’ll have to come back on and tell us what it is. You gave us the promise then ripped it away.

Vincent: Well expect it in the next few months here.

Matthew: Does it involve unicorns. Don’t answer that. Where are you in the capital raising process now? I mean, where were you and where are you now?

Vincent: Well, I can’t really speak to that either. I can say that we are talking to some very prominent groups, and that we’re getting ready to meet a lot of demand and to meet that demand we need to scale. If you’d like to get in touch with us and get more information about that, you can definitely reach out to us at our founder’s email, which is and we’ll get that spelt at the end of the show.

Matthew: Let’s pivot to a few personal development questions to help listeners get a sense of who you are as a person outside a business. Is there a book that has had a big impact on your life or way of thinking that you’d like to share with listeners? It doesn’t need to be about cannabis at all.

Vincent: If I could, there’s two I’d like to share.

Matthew: Yeah, two, give them.

Vincent: All right, so, the first one is The Toyota Way by Jeffrey Liker. I forget what his last name is, but The Toyota Way really changed how I thought about production and large-scale production. It’s also a very famous book and kind of describes how Toyota really came be producing the highest quality, cheapest cars. Then the second book is a book called Cradle to Cradle by Michael Braungart.

Matthew: I’ve read that. It’s great.

Vincent: Yeah, it really helped me understand how to think in a new way to understand systems design and product development in a non-traditional sense.

Matthew: That is an excellent book, and even the book itself is not even on paper. It’s made of a recyclable plastic. It has a tactile sensation that is pleasing to hold, even though it’s not paper, but it can be repurposed into something else after you read it.

Vincent: And it’s waterproof. You can read it in the tub. You don’t have to worry about ruining your book. It’s written by an architect and I think also a chemical engineer. It was just a brilliant book and really inspired a lot of my thinking when I switched to sustainable development.

Matthew: That is such a great book. I’m glad you brought that one up. It’s one of the few books that I think about often, even though I read it years ago. I think gosh I would like to read that again because the way he frames it is that most problems we experience in our day-to-day life is a design probably that only needs to be reimagined and then redesigned. He goes through examples after examples. For example, when a dye facility or a textile facility has an output of dirty water that’s a design problem and it just needs to be fixed and reimagined. He talks about how he went, I think it’s a dye facility or a fabric facility, in Switzerland that had pollutant waters coming out and how he re-engineered the whole thing that by the end of it you could drink the water that was coming out of the facility. Examples like that, but he just does it in such a creative way that it can re-engineer our mind. Definitely I think Shanghai could implement some of those solutions.

Shanghai, you mentioned some of the problems there, but in some other ways it’s kind of like the Emerald City from the Wizard of Oz and that they’re way ahead technologically. I mean, were you there when everybody is using the 10 cent pay app or the Ollie Pay? Was that going on when you were there, or was that not yet implemented?

Vincent: No, that was definitely going on. They’ve absolutely had the… I guess it would be the luck of developing after a lot of these new technologies have become the norm in some Western countries. So, they really did get to leapfrog in a lot of ways. Now it’s just unfortunate that every country that industrializes goes through the same hurdles and the same challenges. Once they ramp up industrialization, there’s a lot of pollution, and I would have hoped that they would have learned from England when the Industrial Revolution began in the United States with LA in the 70s, 60s. All of these countries that have already gone through these problems, but thankfully now they’ve really woken up to the issues and they’re throwing a lot of money at solving these problems.

Matthew: Yeah, I’ve seen pictures on high pollution days. It looks like people are on a moon of Saturn or something where they’re covering their mouth and their face and you can’t see the sun. It’s unbelievable, but I think that’s going to go away soon. I know it’s a big priority to get fixed.

Vincent: Exactly right.

Matthew: I mean, since China’s somewhat like a technocracy or dictatorship in some ways, they don’t have to wait for a congress to approve things. They just do it.

Vincent: That’s one of the most impressive things is how quickly they can move. I mean, they’re a systems culture and they really can move quick.

Matthew: Is there a tool, web-based or otherwise, that you consider vital to your productivity?

Vincent: Yeah. I have two things on that, maybe a couple of things for that. So, I’m totally a productivity nerd so I’m obsessed with this stuff. So, I’d say number one would be my smart notebook. It’s made by a company called Live Scribe, and essentially it’s pen that digitizes everything I write in my notebook. So that would be number one, so I can check my notes even if I don’t have my notebook. I can just pull up Ever Note and get all my written notes OCR’ed in there. Then for our company it would be Git Lab, which is an open source development tool that allows us to actually do collaborative development and remote development from anywhere in the world. Lastly, for my personal organization I’ve been using this new tool, which is actually built by my partner and our CTO Nick Busey, which is called Bullet Notes. Essentially it’s a super simple list and organizing tool, and I’ve been testing that out for my own productivity.

Matthew: Cool. Those are some good ones. It sounds like you’re a productivity nerd. I love it. In closing Vince, tell us how people can learn more about Grownetics, how to connect with you. You already mentioned how investors, who are probably only accredited investors can reach out to you, but how can people that are interested in becoming clients or learning to see if Grownetics is a fit for their grow reach out to you?

Vincent: So, we’ve got two ways. If you’re ready to go and you want to get an idea of what Grownetics would look like for your facility, you can go to our website and apply for a consultation. That form will actually pull up any number of things like your square footage, your licensed plant count and those things to help us get started with that. You can also email us directly at . I would also subscribe to our newsletter because we’re going to be releasing a couple new webinars on the latest greenhouse technologies and it’s where we do our big product announcements. That’s all on our website at

Matthew: Okay now can you say, she sells seashells on the seashore three times really fast.

Vincent: Oh, that’s going to be a tough one.

Matthew: Well, Vince, thanks so much for coming on the show today and educating us. We really appreciate it and here’s to a prosperous 2018 for you.

Vincent: Thanks so much Matt and I really really enjoy these podcasts that you’re doing and keep up the good work getting the good message out.