Does indoor cannabis cultivation have to come with environmental drawbacks? Not anymore. One company has found a way to minimize its emissions AND cut costs in half – all with the power of the sun. Here to tell us about it is Edward Dow of Solar Therapeutics, the first energy-independent dispensary in the world.
Learn more at https://solarthera.com
[2:17] An inside look at Solar Therapeutics, the world’s first energy-independent cannabis cultivation and retail facility based in Somerset, MA
[2:57] Ed’s background in engineering and what led him to become CEO of Solar Therapeutics
[5:55] Solar’s unique indoor cultivation facility, including its extensive solar arrays and centralized heating and cooling systems
[8:32] How Solar implemented its own microgrid to create a 100% self-sufficient, energy-independent facility
[10:40] How Ed was able to bootstrap what’s now a multi-million dollar operation entirely from private investors
[15:25] Solar’s collaboration with Fluence to earn over $1 million in energy efficiency rebates
[17:30] The advantages of broad-spectrum LEDs for energy costs and crop yields
[19:56] How Solar significantly offsets its costs through its heating and cooling systems
[22:36] Solar’s energy costs versus other similar vertically-integrated dispensaries
[25:15] The cannabis industry’s growing carbon footprint and what it will take for companies to implement more sustainable practices
[28:21] The best-selling products in Massachusetts and new trends to look out for
[30:12] Solar Therapeutics’ goals to become a multi-state operator, from Rhode Island to New York and beyond
Matthew: Hi, I'm Matthew Kind. Every Monday look for a fresh new episode where I'll take you behind the scenes and interview the insiders that are shaping the rapidly evolving cannabis industry. Learn more at cannainsider.com that's C-A-N-N-A-insider dot com. Now here's your program.
Hi CannaInsiders, just a quick note before today's interview gets started, that my colleague Sinead Green will be interviewing today's guest.
Sinead: Hey Matt.
Matthew: Sinead is-- Oh my God, you scared me. Sinead I didn't realize you were in the sound booth.
Sinead: Sorry about that Matt.
Matthew: Sinead, since you popped into the sound booth here, this is a great time to just say hello to all the listeners since I was talking about you.
Sinead: Sounds great, I'd love to. Hey everybody, I'm Sinead Green. I've actually been working with Matt behind the scenes for a couple of years now. I'm so excited to put on my hosting hat and really get a chance to engage with you and bring you some more great interviews.
I just want to say, if there's someone you'd like us to bring on the show, please feel free to email me your suggestions at firstname.lastname@example.org. I'd love to hear from you, and I really hope you enjoy these upcoming shows.
Matthew: Gosh, I want to get a hosting hat now that you've mentioned it. I'm picturing a huge purple velvet hat, what do you think about that?
Sinead: I think that would look great on you Matt.
Matthew: Okay, really important Sinead, we want you to do a good job but not better than me, does that sound fair?
Sinead: We'll see about that.
Matthew: All right. Well everybody enjoy this episode with the host Sinead.
Sinead: As indoor cannabis production grows, so does the industry's carbon footprint, and it's worse than you might think. To put it in perspective, studies show growing an ounce of cannabis indoors can emit as much carbon as burning a full tank of gas.
But it doesn't have to be that way. One company has found a way to minimize it's carbon footprint and significantly cut costs, all with the power of the sun. I'm pleased to welcome Ed Dow of Solar Therapeutics, the first and only energy-independent dispensary in the world. Welcome to CannaInsider Ed.
Ed: Thank you very much for having me.
Sinead: Give us a sense of geography, where are you in the world right now?
Ed: Sure, we are located in Somerset, Massachusetts. Which is the southeast coast of Mass.
Sinead: Okay, great. And what is Solar Therapeutics on a high level?
Ed: On a high level, we are a off-the-electrical-grid cannabis manufacturer and retailer. We get all of our power on-site from both an array of solar panels on the roof and the rear of the property. As well as our microgrid, which also consists of two co-gen, combined heat and power generators upfront.
Sinead: Great, I'm really looking forward to getting into Solar Therapeutics and your facility later on. Before we get into that, can you share a little bit about yourself and what you were doing before Solar Therapeutics?
Ed: Sure, immediately prior to Solar Therapeutics, I had started another company primarily focusing in the underwater exploration space. Primarily underwater autonomous vehicles, AUVs and ROVs. My company was a part of the manufacturing supply chain for these vehicles. Prior to that, I worked for a company, Woods Hole Oceanographic Institution, heavily in the mechanical engineering side, and mainly in the oceanographic exploration world, hence why I went into the other company thereafter.
A lot of the same systems that we have to deal with in that space, either indirectly or directly relate over in the cannabis space. Oceanographic exploration is a real hands-on problem-solving mentality. You're coming up with a question of what you're trying to search for, or how you're trying to search for it. Then you need to basically figure out the instrumentation or equipment needed to get there or to find something. That's a throw-you-in-the-deep-end approach, which was great, and I loved it. Awesome, awesome place to work.
Sinead: That's amazing. Your background in engineering was really fascinating to me because obviously it's come in handy for Solar Therapeutics here. What kind of edge do you feel that's given you in the cannabis industry?
Ed: Truthfully, when I first entered in, tremendous. There's a lot of people that came from the financial world that were jumping into the cannabis space. This space is so heavily involved with not just engineering, but also executing and designing and building-- or building actually, what you've designed. So I think early on it gave me a pretty solid edge. That coupled with I built a company prior that was heavily based around mechanical engineering and systems, I think it translated very well into the cannabis space.
Now there's a lot more like-minded individuals. There's a lot of folks that I deal with who are great, it's great to see coming into the space, both on the electrical and the mechanical side. It's fun to see and fun to work with them, and push boundaries, is what I'm hoping.
Sinead: Okay great. I read that you're not only the CEO at Solar but you also played a big hand in conceptualizing Solar Therapeutics. Could you give us a walk-through of the facility and give us a sense of the inner workings there? I know it's a very unique facility.
Ed: I think the most unique part of us is probably now the microgrid aspect of us. To commit to a large-scale grow off the electrical grid is daunting, but I think the bones of Solar came from a number of engineers. I would agree with you, the vision came from me, but I think I had to work with six or seven-- probably more than that by this point in time, engineers. It was really a collaborative effort, I would say.
Inside Solar we're a centralized heating and cooling plant which is substantial in that all of our cooling or heating ability is created in one plant, out in the front of our facility. That's then circulated throughout, through our various grow rooms, our various operations. That's unique to say, a mini-split, or a point-of-use heating and cooling system, which is really largely the norm.
Building in the fashion that we did is much more mechanically and financially intensive early on, but it's much more efficient in the order of magnitude once you scale up. It's a much more efficient way to produce your cooling and your heating, and then transferring it around to your points of use than it is to build these little HVAC systems that are used for each grow area.
Again, so I'd say that's the main differentiator from the way we're designed. That, and then we really try to take sustainability at our real core ethos. We try to maintain sustainability throughout, including we save all our water from our condensate stream. We're recycling at least 90% of our water. It's not necessarily a big dent on the bottom line. If anything it might cost us a little extra but we think there's no need to waste thousands and thousands of gallons per day when we can recapture that and re-use it. Which we chose to do.
Right down to the packaging, we really try to weave it in throughout our whole facility. It's part of our core ethos, I'd say.
Sinead: That's great, I want to get into your heating and cooling system later on, because I know you guys offset a lot of your costs using your system there. I want to talk a little bit about your microgrid first. I know you built that yourselves, it took you about a year to do it. Just wanting to really give the listeners a sense of how you use that to power your facility, and what the process was like getting that up and running.
Ed: It's arduous for sure, committing to a microgrid for 100% of you power was not-- Just so we're real clear, was not my intent set out at the gate. The intent was to subsidize ourselves with the solar, have a significant electrical connection to the grid and build upon our microgrid resources and assets as we moved.
Then we found out we couldn't get the power that we needed from the grid for about two years and millions of dollars, so we had to pivot quite substantially. I'll say this, designing and building from the ground-up or a build like this from the ground-up, and if you choose to go from the microgrid, is probably a much more clear-cut approach than the way that we ended up here. That said, it's still a huge undertaking. If you're committed to cutting the cord, so to speak, you're talking six months minimum design. You're talking a year of implementation. I love how you said it took us a year to finish the microgrid, I would have to say we're still not done with the microgrid. We're still optimizing, there's still points of times where our load, our energy demand profile will peak so heavily that it can cause issues with our own internal microgrid, whereas if we were part of the larger electrical grid, it could absorb that bump, no problem or that spike, no problem but I would say we're continually to this day, including right now improving our microgrid on site. It's not really done with its full commissioning.
Sinead: Wow, man, that's crazy. You guys had a lot of upfront costs but yet you were still able to bootstrap what's now a multi-million dollar operation entirely from private investors. How did you go about doing that? How did you secure those early investors?
Ed: Well, I'm super proud of that and to this day, we're still privately owned all, no institutional money. I was the starter of that. I think I poured all my own money into it. I'm the CEO and founder here, but I did not have anything substantial to do the build-out that we needed here is basically enough to cover legal costs initially if you really looked at it.
I think one, leading by example of putting my own money on the line probably instilled a bit of confidence into the folks that I was talking to initially. Two, getting involved with, it was initially a number of doctors for myself, there were six of us who started this whole thing, financially, anyways, bootstrapped the initial seed money.
We were fortunate in that they believed in the vision that I showed them and the building that I found, and it took a few of them to commit and then it really, it was very tough. You've probably talked to a number of these entrepreneurs, bootstrapping these companies, it's not all yeses in the beginning, but then you get a few yeses, and that really turned into a snowball effect.
The other real big part of it was taking the seed money we had and executing in a way that got people really excited. Now it's so much different, now we have people actively knocking down the doors to get involved, which I'm happy to say we're closed, we don't ever anticipate to do more equity funding, which is great.
It was tough. It's a process and it's really-- If I could say to anyone, it's networking, networking, networking, and really having, you might not have the full vision of the company. In fact, if you say you do, it's probably not really truthful but if you show a really good start and a solid foundation on what you can build, you're not going to know it all out of the gate, but you can certainly build the plane as you're flying it, which is what I've been doing here.
Sinead: Wow, and you said most of your early investors were doctors, was that a challenge finding doctors who were on board with the medicinal cannabis space or was it easier than you thought?
Ed: I think back then, this is-- remember, this is almost four years ago, actually, probably is four years ago, there was so few doctors in the space, but the ones that were in it, they were really passionate about it. They wanted to speak to the benefits of cannabis. They were vocal about it, doing conferences.
My first two doctors that I had are prominent rheumatologists and speak all over the world. Prior to meeting me, they spoke all over the world as to the potential future benefits of cannabis in their studies. These are really limited funding studies so they had to be passionate about it. They were the first two.
Now I'd say there's a number more involved in the space and it's piquing more and more interest in the way of studies and doctors that are interested in getting into the space now, which is great to see. No, they were on board with cannabis from the beginning, and then I was really fortunate that they introduced me into their network and that was the snowball effect that I was discussing earlier. It started with the doctors and then evolved into more--
Obviously, we needed to deal with High-Net-Worth Individuals. It was all privately funded, and they got me into those pools of capital. Again, then we started hitting the ball, we started building out and then gaining more traction but yes, to this day, I think it's now officially over a third of my investors are doctors.
Sinead: Okay, very cool. I'm always curious where things are in terms of medicinal cannabis and your more conventional medicine. That's really reassuring to hear.
Ed: Yes, thank you.
Sinead: Okay, that's cool. Can you share a little bit about your partnership with Fluence and you guys have outfitted your entire facility using their LED lights, and you've earned quite a rebate using their technology? Can you share a little bit about that with us?
Ed: We have yes. Fluence was, I guess we're not partners on paper but we really are partners in the sense that I vetted all the products early on, we didn't think we could afford LEDs early on, and really, we couldn't, I intended to upgrade to LEDs as the technology proved itself a little better and as we had more cash in the coffers, but I made the conscious decision to switch to LED early on, which actually affected the whole design of my facility in a positive way, which I could talk about later. Fluence was just a standout product then. It was really one of the only standout products that I had dealt with that I really liked.
I did not think I could afford them, they made an offer to me that I couldn't refuse, they basically helped me get my lights. Eventually, obviously, I had to pay it back, but at a cost that I couldn't turn down. I am so happy we did that.
Now we've brought on additional grow rooms, every time we bring on more grow rooms we're buying large orders of more Fluence lights. It did kind of form into a partnership. I am happy to promote them because I really, truly believe in their product and I think that that's paying dividends because now they promote us as well so it's fantastic.
We actually have an event coming up here, the Cultivator Cup coming up Labor Day weekend, where they're going to be a major part of it. A major sponsor for it. We're thrilled to have them and a few other key vendors that we work with. Yes, it's definitely formed into a relationship and more of a partnership in that sense.
Sinead: Oh, wow, that's great. You mentioned broad-spectrum LEDs, you discovered that they are the preferred lighting solution. How did you figure that out and what are the advantages there for energy costs and crop yields?
Ed: Yes, as a long-time grower myself, I actually tried to adopt LEDs early on and had terrible, terrible results. They weren't really engineered properly at all at the time. The broad spectrum LEDs that you speak to, Fluence and other folks now have, they've really studied what the cannabis plant absorbs, and the spectrums that it does not absorb and they've basically prioritized all of the spectrum that these lights generate into only what the plant does absorb.
Theoretically, you should then have the least energy input for that light with the maximum output to the plants and I'll say that's what we're seeing firsthand. The other huge benefit for us, for LEDs versus metal halide or high-pressure sodium or any of what they call, affectionately the gas and glass lights is just the heat.
The heat is well over 100 degrees, 140 easily on those old metal halide and HPS. In the LEDs, I actually don't know what the high side threshold is, but it's got to be under 110 degrees but where I measure it is on the heating load to the building that we're trying to then get remove all that heat. Obviously, it takes a lot of cooling.
Don't hold me to the number but it was well over a quarter, I think it was a third of the heat. It was half the heat, I'm comfortable saying from a comparable metal halide or HPS, which is huge. That means all your HGH systems are smaller, you're heating loads are much smaller, therefore you need less cooling. It was really a trickle-down effect that redesigned and re-engineered our whole entire early-on build. We were able to reduce at least 500 tons of [unintelligible [00:19:51] which is substantial.
Sinead: Wow. That's amazing. That's so cool. You guys not only save a ton just on energy costs, but you mentioned earlier, you are able to offset a lot of your costs through your heating and cooling systems. Can you tell us a little bit more about how you do that and ballpark how much you're able to save offsetting those costs?
Ed: Sure. As far as a dollars and cents, what we're saving, that's going to take a year of trend analysis to get to. I can say this, we're recapturing all of our heat. Rather than just venting our heat to the atmosphere, we're recapturing it in our, what we call our ERUs, our energy recovery units. We're doing the same with our cooling. Anywhere we can recapture our free cooling and free heating we are doing so in the HDAC system.
We also are integrating our co-gens, the combined heat and power generation units I spoke to, which are really the backbone of our energy production for the facility. We're currently calling that heat-- Right now the heat is going through a series of heat exchangers and it's not yet plumbed into our system. Once we reclaim that into the facility, that's a further way to reduce all the heating loads we need.
In addition to taking that what otherwise would be waste heat from the grows, we're reabsorbing that into our central heating system. I guess what I'm trying to say is on the microgrid, we're doing the same exact thing. Our ultimate goal is that we'll never have to run our boilers. Those are substantial boilers. You're talking 3.7 million BTUs times two. We were trying to never have to turn those on, again, unless we have a failure and there's some reason we need to have those on. That's on the heating side.
On the cooling side, we've also integrated free fluid coolers, so that anytime-- In the northeast, we have a very cold climate in the winter. A lot of times, obviously, we're heating through the whole winter, we need to keep the thermal load up, but you still need cooling. It sounds counterintuitive, but these lights, they put out a lot of heat. Also, you need to get rid of a lot of humidity that these plants give off. You need cooling.
In the winter, we have these two big free fluid coolers that actually take all the cooling from the atmosphere anytime it's below, I believe, it's 44 degrees outside. The atmosphere cools those cooling coils. That's fired right back to into our central cooling system. That's a huge win for us too in that we don't have to turn our chillers on in the winter. That's a little bit about our heating and cooling load.
Sinead: Wow. You mentioned it's going to take about a year to really look at the numbers and see how much you guys are saving. If you had to ballpark it, what would you say solar saves on energy costs in a year compared to similar vertically-integrated dispensaries?
Ed: I can say, specific to electricity costs what we'd be paying to the grid, we save about half. That's pretty substantial. Then what do we save on energy costs? That's the thing I'm referring to, that's going to take a year. That's where we really start seeing really big efficiencies.
We're now I might say, I'm comfortable saying we were maybe 60% of the carbon footprint that another facility would be. We're really targeting a lot higher than that. We're trying to offset 75+% of our emissions, 80%. There's a possibility if everything treads out properly, we integrate the free fluid coolers properly, we take all the waste heat properly, there's a scenario in which you can see 90%+ efficiencies. That's really where we'd like to get to.
That's not just efficient for the cannabis space, that's efficient for any big manufacturing space, be it pharmaceutical or what have you. That's a significant offset of both Co2 production, as well as efficient energy usage. That's where we're trying to get.
Sinead: Okay, great. You did have a lot of upfront costs and I'm sure just the maintenance of these systems requires some costs of their own. How long do you think it will take for those costs to pay for themselves? Do you think that'll happen in the next few years or what would you predict there?
Ed: Without the energy rebates, it's still a few year ROI. It's a little under a few year ROI, depending on how you fund it et cetera. It makes financial sense. It's just a very heavy lift and it's a lot of work that you don't have to do if you just plug into an outlet, so to speak. It's a lot easier to just plug your phone into an outlet than to make the generator that's running that outlet.
Sinead: That's a good point.
Ed: You did allude to the energy, the rebates and for the microgrid, we are targeting a rebate for that. To date, we've gotten just overall the facility 1.1 million in rebates to date. That's substantial. So that really helped. It speeds up the ROI that you were speaking to.
Sinead: That's huge. That really ties into my next question for you. As indoor cannabis grows, facilities are, in Massachusetts alone, they're currently responsible for about 10% of industrial electricity. As the sector grows, this could really skyrocket.
What does it feel like to be leading the charge there, in terms of more sustainable practices? What do you think it will take for companies to jump on board?
Ed: Well, one, it feels it's fantastic. I love it. We're not trying to let off the gas. I'm trying to let you know, we're trying to keep pushing forward. Battery storage is a big part of that. In short, I love that we had to own our own microgrid. In hindsight, it was tough, it was certainly a challenge, but really happy that we do own this in this space.
What's it going to take to push forward? The change is, I think it's all regulatory. I think, from a business standpoint, like I said, it's much easier just to plug your facility into the grid. It just is. It's a fixed cost that you work into doing business. There's not much of a motivation to go to a microgrid. In fact, in a lot of respects, there's probably a lot of detractors to going with owning and operating with microgrid.
I'm not sure it is for everyone, in truth. When you look at these large manufacturing plants like Kellogg's or these huge pharmaceutical companies, they do their own microgrids. That must mean it makes financial sense when you're at scale. A large-scale operation, they almost all incorporate them. I think it is the way of the future. I think microgrids are a real solution to our heavily-taxed and ageing electrical infrastructure, but there's not a heck of a lot of incentive to do them.
Going one step further, it seems like there might be some incentives drying up from microgrids. If they're more allocated to say, solar and wind turbines, then there's probably going to be less available rebates for natural gas co-generation units. That's just a theory, but it is something I'm dealing with with the current utilities. I guess my short answer is, I don't know how we get there. I think it's got to be regulatory. Otherwise, there's not much of an incentive short-term to go with something like this.
Sinead: That's a really great point. I'm hopeful that as you said, the regulatory side comes up with some solutions here. That's really interesting to hear what challenges you faced there.
I want to shift gears here Ed, and discuss just Massachusetts in general. I know guys have had pretty thriving cannabis market over the last few years. What products are selling best at Solar right now? Are there any surprising new trends in Massachusetts listeners should know about?
Ed: I don't know if it's surprising new trends but seltzers are-- Everyone's interested. Seltzers are big in general and then couple it with the THC space and it's no wonder why they're a big hit with consumers. Believe it or not, the biggest sales segment is still just cannabis flower. Everyone still really just loves the actual flower. That makes up 50% of the sales.
Then it's followed by vape cartridges, edibles. The tinctures are a much smaller section. Yes, seltzers. That's one to look out for. We're working on one right now that we're trying to drop for September. People are really loving the infused beverages.
Sinead: Definitely. Is the seltzer you're working on, is it a CBD seltzer or is it a THC?
Sinead: Oh, very cool. That's awesome. That seems to be a thriving sector there.
Ed: Consumers want it. Not everyone wants to smoke the flower, the raw flower. I have a feeling as the space progresses less and less people are gonna want to do it. Everyone's a little bit more conscientious of what goes into their bodies and their lungs. I think there's big future market for it.
Sinead: Definitely. Yes, for sure. It's very cool. Ed, I have read you have some multi-state operator aspirations. I wondered what are your goals for expansion? Are you looking to replicate what you've developed in Massachusetts in other states?
Ed: That would be ideal. Our first foray is Rhodes Island's obviously in our backyard so we did apply there. We have three pending applications down there. We're hoping. If any of them are pulled-- Let's say all three are pulled from the lotto, you're only allowed one. That's our first hopeful entry into another market.
The other markets, everyone knows New Jersey and New York are on the horizon. Ageing electrical infrastructures like there really ties in perfectly to our solar model and we have been dealing with utility providers down there. This would be an ideal model for climates like that.
Yes, we are actively trying to work on those markets. We're being selective about we don't have the funds some of these big MSOs have to apply into every state as they come on board so we really target the ones that our energy model would translate over to really well. That's where we keep our core focus on.
Sinead: Very cool. Okay. Ed, you've spoken a little bit about where you see sustainability and cannabis heading over the next few years. Where do you see the industry as a whole heading over the next three to five years and what would you say you're most excited about?
Ed: I'm excited about all of it. It's growing exponentially. I know that's a bit of a cop-out of an answer, but there's just-- The space is moving so fast that a month from now, we're going have another hot topic to discuss.
I'm most excited, I'd say, for something like the Safe Banking Act going forward and making it a little bit easier on all of us, for the retailers. Instead of giving away equity for cash, it would be nice to be able to do traditional debt raises, which we're starting to see. I think in the short term, I'm most excited to get just this banking stuff squared away so that we can get some federal tax relief like every other major business to be validated as real business, legitimate business. I think we're going in the right direction there.
One of the most conservative Supreme Court justices just spoke to that. Within the last couple of days, he spoke to this disjointed federal and state policy. That will be great to get that all cleaned up. As an engineering junkie myself, I love equipment, I love automation. I think there's going to be in two years from now we're going to see a whole different way of us growing.
That's something that I'm pushing and something that I'm actively working on that I can't wait to see the systems that we come up with and optimize. I'll let you know as I get a little bit more info on how I think that looks. The AI is there, the electrical side of it's there. It's just we need more mechanical automation.
Sinead: Absolutely, yes. There's so much upswing and I think there's a lot to be excited about. Before we close, Ed, I wanted to pivot into some personal development questions. The first one, is there a book that's had a big impact on your life or way of thinking that you would like to share?
Ed: And old school book in this space was the Marijuana Bible. I think everyone thought that. That was a great book that got me in the right direction some 20 years ago. That's probably the most impactful book I've read in this space and I think it probably still carries some weight to this day.
Sinead: Oh, yes. That's a classic. Very cool, okay. Ed, next Ed development question here. What is one thing going on in the industry right now that you think will have a big impact, but might be a little underappreciated?
Ed: That's a great question. Again, I think I'd go back to Safe Banking Act. I think that's going to be-- That will be extremely appreciated and welcomed. I don't have an answer on that yet. I think every evolution in this space, I think we all greatly appreciate it because it's all--
We're paving the way as we go, and it's getting a little easier here and there. I think any change, we all see the impact and we all really appreciate it. I don't have an answer right now on that at the moment, unfortunately.
Sinead: That's fine. I totally agree with you. I think the industry is so new, every development is just groundbreaking so definitely agree.
Ed: Very impactful, yes.
Sinead: Absolutely. Okay, Ed, this might be the toughest question in the interview. You're stranded on a desert island and can only bring three movies. Which do you choose?
Ed: Lock, Stock, and Two Smoking Barrels, Snatch, and I don't know the third one. That's a great question. Those are my top two by far. The third one-
Sinead: Those are great. [chuckles]
Ed: -Fight Club.
Sinead: Fight Club. Oh my gosh, that's great. I love that movie. I think that might be my top three as well.
Sinead: That's awesome. [chuckles]
Ed: That's it.
Sinead: That's a great answer. Awesome, okay. Ed, as we close, can you share with listeners how they can find you online and connect with you?
Ed: Sure. You can check out our website and then there's hello@solarthera is a great way to get hold of us. It goes to marketing. We all see it. That's probably the best way. If there's any people that are specific and they want to reach out to me directly, it's email@example.com.
Sinead: All right. Ed, thank you so much for coming on the show. We really appreciate it and we wish you the best of luck with the rest of 2021.
Ed: Thank you so much.
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