Many people are becoming familiar with hemp-derived CBD. Today’s guest is a Michigan entrepreneur that lost his wife and was left with three children. He started experiencing panic attacks. Frustrated with traditional pharmaceutical options his neighbor turned him onto CBD and it changed his life and eventually led him to launch MadeByHemp to offer CBD to the public.
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CannaInsider listeners can get a 10% discount at MadeByHemp by using the coupon: insider
– Jeff’s background
– How Jeff lost his wife
– Turning to traditional Pharma
– Jeff’s neighbor offered him CBD
– Feeling human after abandoning traditional meds
– Starting the business in his basement
– Opening a retail storefront in Indiana
– Hemp incubator plans
After experiencing the death of a close loved one and growing dependence on traditional pharmaceuticals, Jeff Gallagher helped himself and his customers enjoy better health with hemp. I'm pleased to have Jeff Gallagher, founder of Made by Hemp, on the show today. Jeff, welcome to CannaInsider.
Jeff: Thanks, Matt. Thanks for having me.
Matthew: Give us a sense of geography. Where are you sitting today?
Jeff: I'm in West Michigan, about 20 minutes due west of Grand Rapids.
Matthew: Okay. And I'm in Edinburgh, Scotland. What is Made by Hemp at a high level?
Jeff: Made by Hemp is...it's a retail outreach. So when I started the company, originally it was Michigan Herbal Remedies LLC. That's our actual parent company name. If I had had known my hobby would've tooken [SP] off, I would've probably came up with a more creative name. So Made by Hemp it is. So, everything we do is made by hemp, and we educate about hemp. So that's what you'll find at our website. And then now, with Indiana's expressed interest in legalization and CBD and the fact that there's a lot of people that don't know what they don't know, we're gonna be doing a brick-and-mortar in Indiana, under the same name.
Matthew: Okay, okay. So you're in Michigan but you're so close to Indiana that you kinda cross over the state line and do things there as well.
Jeff: Yep, we're just getting ready to just start our first brick-and-mortar.
Matthew: Okay. And tell us a little bit about your journey, what you were doing before starting this company and how you came to start Made by Hemp.
Jeff: Sure. My whole life I've been into computers. So I guess my professional name would be network engineer, after doing it for my whole life. So I worked from home. I was widowed, as you said. My wife passed away about 12-and-a-half years ago. Left me with three children at the time, two teenagers and a two year old. Now, two well into adulthood, and one that is in driver's training, almost 15. So, during that journey and when you go through loss, you do what everybody else does, right? You go to the doctor and you do what you're told. Got into some pharmaceuticals and I felt like I wasn't human. So, during that journey I wanted to feel human again and I worked myself. I found a naturopath. There's not a one-size-fits-all approach, right? So I found a naturopath. At first, I thought it was a little odd, but what she had to tell me and what I learned made sense. Good in, good out, right?
So, after a long struggle with everything, I still was very anxious and I actually ran into CBD on accident. My neighbor where I had moved into said that he had something that would help, and he was taking stalks of marijuana plants, of the waste product, and grinding them up and making capsules out of them. And it took him a while to convince me to try these things because I was like, "Yeah, I'm gonna get high, you know." The anxiety and high don't work. Fast forward, I tried them, realized I wasn't anxious. And then...I didn't know what I was eating though. So I took them to a local...well, I guess it wasn't local. The only one in the state of Michigan at the time, a testing facility for cannabis, and I found out it had CBD in it. And at the time, I had no clue what CBD was, and this was in 2012.
So after a little bit of research, finding out what CBD was, I found a company in Colorado that had industrial hemp-based CBD products, which sounded a little more legit than the guy that was taking waste product and making them into capsules. And bought some and started selling it online because I wanted to help other people experience what I had experienced with hemp, or CBD in general, and that was...you know, the fact that I am no longer dependent on any pharmaceuticals. I sleep well and I have a very stable and positive life. I actually have been blessed. I have remarried. So even more teenagers in the house now. I don't know if that was a wise choice but they're amazing.
Matthew: Okay. So you had anxiety, and then once you started taking CBD, it just kinda went away? I'm trying to help people that have never tried it before. I know most listeners are familiar with it but there's still a lot of people that haven't tried it and maybe you could tell them about your experience of like what it did exactly.
Jeff: Well, sure. It's hard to explain what CBD does, right? It's like what does Vitamin C do? You know, Vitamin C doesn't really do anything that we can quantify, right? Or does it? You know, they say we need it, but do we? So, CBD is very similar. It's like a nutrient to me. I'm not a doctor, so I can't treat or diagnose anything, but how do you explain the lack of something, right? I used to have panic attacks. I never had one before my wife had passed away. She had had them all the time. And actually, I thought they were all psychological. Well, when you have your first one and you think you're dying of a heart attack and then subsequent panic attacks for years after that, you realize, well, A, you can't control them, and B, once you start down what I call the slippery slope of having a panic attack, you're going for the ride. So what I have realized was there was a lack of anxiousness, if that makes any sense. And how do you quantify a lack of something, right? That's the hardest thing to explain to somebody. It's the lack of, you know. So it's sort of like...it's light and dark. Dark is the lack of light. But it's easy because you can see it. But to me, it was hard for me to, you know, quantify until I realized, after taking these capsules for a while, that I just wasn't. You know, and I had realized I hadn't taken, you know, any pharma in a while and I'm like, "Wow, this is crazy." And then I wanted to help five people a month. I started a blog, which failed. I started a little website which didn't take off very well. And back in 2012, I was on Amazon, Etsy, eBay. I mean, I was everywhere. Or 2013, when I started selling online. And nobody knew what CBD was at that time, except for in the cannabis...you know, the people in California that had...that knew what it was.
Matthew: They already had access to it probably.
Jeff: Yeah, for years, right? And then Sanjay Gupta got on TV and talked about CBD. And then I would have to say that was one of the catalysts that launched the hemp CBD industry forward.
Matthew: Okay. And then for people that ask "Does it get you high?" I'm sure that's a question you get a lot. What do you say?
Jeff: No, it doesn't. So there's no real feeling with CBD, right? So if you've ever used cannabis and used THC specifically, there's a euphoria feeling, or everybody has a different set of feelings that they receive. With CBD, it's not that way. So, no, there's no high feeling, but what...and I'm very in tune to my body because I watch what I put in it, and large amounts of CBD will make me tired. So that can happen. And it's an oil, so, you know, if you eat too much oil, even if it was canola oil, you might get an upset tummy. So those are the two things that I personally have noticed as far as feeling. Does that make sense?
Matthew: Yeah, that makes sense. And then for people that are considering like, "Hey, should I vape this or should I take a tincture or a transdermal patch?" what do you tell them?
Jeff: Well, it depends on the person. First of all, hemp is very earthy. So if you like the closest to the plant you can get, right, closest to the source, it tastes...the best description, and in my opinion one of the best ingestion methods, is sublingually, you know, closest to the source. But some people can't take a flavor profile, right, of that, so a tincture helps mimic the flavor profile a little bit, and people have a more palatable way ingesting it. And then depending on the person, some people like subdermal patches. I have a lot of people that use those for a variety of reasons, mostly localized. They say, you know, that they work for whatever reason they're putting them on their body for. CBD is an anti-inflammatory, so, you know, if you remove inflammation, other things happen, right? So it just depends on what the person wants. We have topicals. I mean, it's really good for dry skin. You know, it's good moisturizers. So we have a variety of different methods of, you know, absorbing CBD. People don't believe that your skin absorbs just as much as eating something. It's just a different way of ingesting, right? And it doesn't ingest as fast, but, you know, it's an organ just like sort of your stomach. So...
Matthew: Okay. And when you say you take the inflammation away, you mean that inflammation is a symptom of something and you wanna try to treat what the root cause versus just the symptom?
Jeff: Well, I wouldn't say treat, but yeah. So, people have a variety of different issues, right? And cannabis isn't the panacea of everything, but it is, in combination with, you know, good eating habits, lots of water...it helps. Inflammation is rampant in America, in the world, and if you remove inflammation, whatever it's caused by, right, you're gonna find that it's easier to move. You're, you know, maybe not feeling as in pain. Again, I don't think it's treating something, I think it's just removing the cause, I guess. It isn't really treating it though. Does that make sense?
Matthew: Yeah. Let's pivot to last week and what happened with...I think it was one of the senators or congressmen from Iowa tried to slip into a bill to make CBD illegal. I'm sure you're familiar with that. What was that all about and what do you think was going on there?
Jeff: That was the Grassley Amendment, and it didn't make it into the final language. I think it's a lack of education. I don't think...I mean, we're five, six years into hemp production. The University of Kentucky, I mean, they'll tell you we're relearning, you know, something we forgot. So, people don't know what they don't know. Maybe outside pressures from different groups don't know what they don't know. You know, they think CBD and THC are the same. You wouldn't believe how many people think hemp is marijuana. So, maybe it's just a lack of true knowledge and information. I think that, in my experience, when you communicate with, you know, the legislature, they're just like me and you. They're clueless until they're informed. And when they hear crazy stories, and this is what gives it a bad rap, people call and it might have done X, Y, or Z for that person, right? Maybe, maybe not. Who knows? We can't say for sure. But when 100 phone calls come in to their senator saying it did X for them, you know, or their third eyeball went away or, you know, crazy stuff to them which sounds like, you know, miracles or whatever, they get scared and it's...I don't know. I mean, they're trying to make everybody happy, I guess you could say, and there's a lot of groups with more money than me and companies like me that can sway opinions.
Matthew: Yeah, I think it's more the latter, but I might just be a cynical person.
Jeff: You know, me too.
Matthew: Tell me, when customers come to your site or call in, what symptoms do they say they are looking for relief from primarily? We talked about inflammation. We talked about anxiety. Is there any others?
Jeff: There's a myriad of different symptoms that people call for. Unfortunately, and our go-to is we sell for the overall health and well-being, you know. And we can't guarantee or make any claims that it'll help them, because they hear 1,000 different things from 1,000 different sources. So, our number one is, do some homework, understand what you're taking and where it comes from. Those are the key things for us. And then we have a 100% money back guarantee, so for whatever reason if it didn't give you the benefit that you were looking for, you could have your money back because I want you to be a happy person. Most people, and then this is more anecdotal for me, when people call, I try to explain to them that our bodies have a whole system to process these substances called Cannabinoids and that we ingest a variety of them every day. CBD can be one added. But since our bodies have never processed these substances before, I find that most people, you know, will take, you know...they'll expect it to be like cannabis and make them feel something, right? So they'll eat it once or twice and they'll, "Oh, this didn't work for me." And they'll stop taking it. And I usually ask them, even after a refund, I go, "Hey, why don't you do me a favor? Take one to two serving sizes for two weeks and call me back." Almost every person that has actually called me back has called me back with positive...they were happy that they continued to take the product and that it was doing what they were looking for for them.
Matthew: And do you put dosaging recommendations on tinctures? Are they right on there, or how do you know what the dosage should be?
Jeff: Well, we put serving sizes. So, it's just like food, right? How do you...for what works for me might not work for you. So, our bodies all process things differently based on, you know, our environment and our physiology, and there's not really been any research done because, you know, the powers that be haven't allowed the floodgates of research to begin in the United States. So we recommend everything as a serving. We recommend everybody try the serving, and if they don't feel that they're getting what they want out of it, to double or triple it up. But, you know, more is not always greater. Just like anything we eat, our bodies only absorb a percentage of it, right? So, no matter what we do, if our body isn't absorbing it, it doesn't matter how much we ingest. And it's very expensive to ingest to waste it.
Matthew: Okay. So you mentioned that, you know, sometimes people will call and you say, "Hey, take it for a little bit longer." What's the most common feedback you get from customers in general after they've tried it, and just what do they say to you?
Jeff: Well, it's hard to quantify a lack of something, right, until you experience it. So when they call back, they're like, "Wow, I understand." And it's hard to quantify the fact that I can move my shoulder more than I could move it before without wincing, or I notice that I didn't toss and turn all night. But yet, can you quantify that to, you know, I got exercise and some water and I'm now taking CBD? Or is that, you know...I think it's all encompassing. I also think if we believe something is going to help us, we will see a positive result one way or another. I'm not saying that CBD is...doesn't help, because it does. And it's been proven that it does a lot of different things in other countries, but in the United States, they don't like us to talk about those things.
Matthew: You're considering creating a hemp incubator. You got a lot of moving pieces here. You got the website. You've got the store you're opening right now, and you're considering a hemp incubator. Can you tell us a little bit about what sparked that idea?
Jeff: Well, we have all these people growing hemp now, a lot for CBD, but there's so many other uses and a lot of material left over that isn't used for CBD production. And I'm assuming that there's some great minds out there that would love to play with this stuff and have access to some resources and some technology to use this hemp for something else. I mean, I even heard it makes a better battery. I have no idea. But I would love to allow some young minds to get together and try. What do we have to lose?
Matthew: Yeah. It seems like the senator from Kentucky, it was Mitch McConnell, he's finally, I think, seen the light, like what this could do for his state, because Kentucky is pretty forward in hemp production. Because I think it was the 2012 farm bill, I think that's why they're kinda jumping everybody. I think I got that correct. And so, there seems to be, like, the initial, like the phase transition has happened here. I don't know if we call it the floodgates have opened, but there's that critical mass within the legislative bodies that they say, "Oh, we see this now." What do you think about that?
Jeff: I agree. I was at University of Kentucky for the HIA conference last year. Very impressive, what they're doing. They'll even tell you they're learning every year something new. What you think would work sometimes doesn't work, and, you know, they're learning about a piece of agriculture that for over 100 years we've forgotten. But it's exciting because now these farmers, especially in Kentucky, have a new cash crop potential. As you know, tobacco...I don't know how many people you know that still smoke but I smoked for a long time and I haven't had a cigarette in a decade almost now. So, you know, the tobacco farmers don't have a cash crop. And from everything I pieced together, Kentucky was one of the first...I mean, they grew hemp there rampantly. And when hemp was made illegal back in the '30s, tobacco took over because that was definitely a crop that they could grow and make money on. So, I see it coming back.
Matthew: This has got to be the most successful propaganda campaign ever in history. What William Randolph Hearst did with marijuana and hemp, is like, I mean, so effective that we're talking about it nearly 100 years later and having to convince people one by one. I mean, for those people who don't know what I'm talking about, William Randolph Hearst was a newspaper baron and he had cotton farms. I believe this is the genesis of it. He had the cotton farms and he saw hemp as a competitor. So, first thing he did was conflated hemp and marijuana as the same plant and then he made all these outrageous claims of all these terrible things that mostly men did when they consumed that plant, and then got it made illegal so that he could squash his competitors. And it's really hard to compete with someone that owns all the newspapers in the country because they can get their message out over and over again every day.
But I just look and I think like, "Wow, if anybody ever has a doubt that propaganda can work, this has gotta be the poster of an example, because it's just amazing." Because you look before that, you know, this was like an apothecary, you know, type staple to have hemp and tinctures of this kind, and no one thought of it as anything crazy at all.
Jeff: From all the research I've seen, it was in a vast majority even of the pharmaceuticals but over the counter. You know, if you owned a certain amount of acreage, you grew it. You could pay taxes with it. I think you were misspoken about the cotton. I think he owned paper trees, like pulp trees.
Matthew: Paper trees, okay, okay.
Jeff: In my opinion, they were made worthless when they came up with the decorticator to make the manual processing of hemp much more cost efficient. It makes sense. He owned all the newspapers. So if you own the newspapers, then you own everything at that time.
Matthew: Right. The message, the message. So, yeah. Well, tell us some more here. You talked about the incubator a little bit. I mean, you and I talked offline a little bit, and what I found fascinating about your situation is that you've really scaled up from just kind of a one-man band, and that's a hard thing to do because it takes a lot of different skill sets to be an entrepreneur. How have you managed that? And have you looked to any outside tools or groups or resources to kind of make that transition instead of becoming the doer, kind of the executive in your business?
Jeff: Actually, I have. As I was growing my company in my basement, just me, to what is...I think we're at 27 team members, and I have five open positions just in Michigan right now. So as you grow and you scale and you're hanging out with your friends, well, your conversations that you wanna have with people change, right? How do you have a conversation about payroll when your buddies, you know, they have no clue what it's like to have made payroll? So I went on a mission to find, you know, other people that had my issues, like payroll, and I found one group. It's called the Entrepreneurs' Organization. And it's a fairly large group but there's certain requirements to join it, and I hadn't quite reached those requirements when I found it. But I strived for it, and once I did...there's a peer group part of it that's monthly which they call forum, which is really interesting. It's six to eight people, all business owners that talk about the good, the bad, and the ugly of everything, life, business, marriage, it doesn't matter. It's a place for us to talk about that stuff in a private setting. And it's been very beneficial. But the one thing that's allowed me to have 100% growth two years, and now this year we're about 50% growth - I don't think my team could handle another 100% year growth - is a tool called Entrepreneurs Operating System. And I'm gonna plug Gino here. He's the author, Gino Wickman. And if you search for it online, there's a bock called "What the Heck is EOS?" And his first book is called "Fraction." But that is the system that I've used. I found out that my title, I guess we could call it, is visionary, according to this system. I became the vision behind the brand. And most people don't...there's two types of high-level people. There's integrators and visionaries. Most companies don't need a visionary, but a company like mine and like Walt Disney did. Like, Walt Disney was a visionary, Roy was the guy that made it work.
So I found that part about myself, and I've just grown my team through that system. That's been one of the most amazing things that could've ever happened for my company.
Matthew: Is it kind of similar to, like, some people are starters and some people are finishers, and so an integrator would be more of a person that takes your idea and makes it a reality and does all the nuts and bolts of it?
Jeff: Make sure that all the pieces are put in place, yep.
Matthew: Okay. Is there any other roles besides visionary and integrator?
Jeff: I mean, those are the main ones as far as, like, usually founders in organizations that take a vision to grow. CBD was a concept five years ago, right? Now, we're at almost 30 people. It's taken me a lot of trial and error, a lot of, "Oops, that didn't works. Oh, people don't like that. Oh, people love that." So, the visionary and the integrator are like the Yin and the Yang. You know, I got 100 new ideas every day and it's that person, the integrator's time to go, "Hey, Jeff, these two are awesome. Let's kill it." And then we go from there.
Matthew: That frees up the visionary, too, because if the visionary gets down in the weeds too much, they can't be dreaming up more vision like Walt Disney did. And Roy Disney can kind of take the pain away from it and he can be free to just say, what if or what's possible.
Jeff: Correct. Yep. And part of the EOS, they call it delegate and elevate. So, you delegate what you can do and you're good at but you shouldn't be doing, and you try to find things and limit yourself to the things that you should be doing. I still work every day in the business, if needed. You know, I'm all hands on deck, right? But we're to that point where now I get to work on the business way more than I work in the business, which has allowed us to scale. Like I said, we're almost 30 people. We should be 50 by this time next year, maybe a little larger, depending on which areas we grow in. Kentucky, you had mentioned. I would love to have a full processing facility in Kentucky, work with some of the local farmers. As they're learning, we can all learn together. And I would like to be completely what they call farm-to-shelf, you could say.
Matthew: Okay, instead of farm-to-table, farm-to-shelf. I like it.
Jeff: You know, in the next 18 months.
Matthew: Did you find it difficult at all in terms of letting go? Because there's, you know, probably no one that cares about your business quite as much as you do. How did you, you know, release and allow some of this delegation to happen? And then, how do you have your team members help you in a way that was helpful to you?
Jeff: Well, we live by our core values, and I realize that everybody here wants the best for the company. So if I'm hiring right and firing right and recognizing right and rewarding right, then my team, I learn to trust them. Now, don't get me wrong. I make mistakes. We had bad hires. But I had to let go. I was juggling 87 things and dropping 45 of them, and doing 3 of them okay and the rest of them horrible. So I realized that if I didn't start doing what I do really, really well, amazing, and letting other people do things that can do them much better than me do them, I was probably gonna have a heart attack and my business probably wouldn't have survived.
Matthew: Okay. Let go or get dragged. That's what they say, right?
Jeff: Pretty much.
Matthew: Okay. Now, I like to ask some personal development questions to help listeners get a better sense of who you are. You already kind of answered the one about a book, the EOS, the Entrepreneur's Operating System. Is there any other book that you consider vital to how you think or has had an impact on your business?
Jeff: There is another one. There is an author named Mike Michalowicz, and he wrote a book called, "The Pumpkin Plan." That was the second book of his I read. [inaudible 00:31:06]. But he wrote a book called, "Profit First." And I'm in the helping people business. We volunteer. My whole team goes and volunteers at local charities. I mean, during work. So we're about giving and education. Well, I also realize that I'm the one that holds all the chips, and at the end of the day, if I don't get to enjoy some of the fruits of my labor, why am I doing what I'm doing? I didn't wanna build myself a job. So that's the other book that I found. And we're working toward that complete implementation of that. And believe it or not, we actually are growing. We're more profitable, and everybody seems to be very open to the idea. And that book was called "Profit First."
Matthew: Okay. And I've heard of that book but I'd never heard the details about it, and I will say, I've talked to a couple of people on your team and they've been very smart and outgoing, and one of them even coordinated this interview. So, thank you for that, Brady. And is there a tool that you consider helpful or vital to running your business? It could be something that's web-based. It can be anything.
Jeff: So, with my background in technology, it's just like a tricky one for me, because I've been around technology since I was five. So what, a specific tool? Not necessarily because no one tool will fit the whole gamut, right? In the Operating EOS, they have online tools you can use, but Google or Microsoft both...I live and die by my calendar. And the second most important thing that I found once I got to a size where I was dropping a lot of balls, is that I needed help, personally needed somebody that knew how to make sure that I was at the right place at the right time and I never missed a meeting or an interview or, you know, had to be back in the laboratory or whatever they needed from me. So I hired a personal assistant that's virtual, and it was the best thing that I ever did in my entire life.
Matthew: Oh, great. Now, Jeff, as we close, how can listeners learn more about Made by Hemp and find your products online and connect with you in all the different ways that are possible?
Jeff: Well, madebyhemp.com is the easiest way to find us. We have a support staff...I think it's 8:00 to 5:00, Monday through Friday, Eastern Standard Time. We always wanna answer the phone. Sometimes we lack on that when we get high call volumes. So we're very accessible. Please call us. Please ask questions. We wanna hear from you. Our blog is full of resources and information about who we are and how we wanna help people. And then very soon we'll be releasing some more information about our retail walk-in store which is gonna be more of an educational experience than a store. We're hoping to help a lot of people understand what hemp is and what hemp isn't.
Matthew: Okay. And one final question is that I'm always on the lookout for cool places, and you're headquartered in Grand Rapids, Michigan, and it's kind of becoming a little bit of a, like, a hipster hub there. You know, brewhouses and just cool scene, and not a lot of people know about it. Can you just give us a quick overview? Is it like a mini "Portlandia," or what's going on there?
Jeff: Well, I'm not familiar with "Portlandia," and I grew up...
Matthew: Oh, you gotta watch that. You gotta watch it. Drop everything. You gotta watch it.
Jeff: Will do. Fair enough. I will do that in the next couple of days. I'm from the Flint, Michigan area. So, after I moved to west Michigan for a fresh start, it's different. The people here are different. Everybody's happy. I mean, it's not a panacea, but we're working. There's help wanted signs everywhere. People walk around with smiles on their faces. There is the brew pubs. The food scene is amazing. The spirits, since all these brew masters perfected their art with beer, they're now doing craft distillery. So that's growing in Michigan as well. Music venues. It's a pretty nice place to live. I live west of there in Holland, and I'm 10 minutes from Lake Michigan. So, 90 days of the year at the Caribbean, the rest of the year I have up to 100 inches of snow.
Matthew: Okay. So it's kind of a mixed bag there, yeah. I grew up in the Midwest so I know what you're talking about. Well, Jeff, thanks for that color about Grand Rapids, and congratulations on your business. What a big accomplishment, and you're really helping a lot of people. We appreciate you coming on the show. Keep us updated, and good luck in the rest of 2018.
Jeff: Thank you, Matt. I appreciate your time today.
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