Ep 331 – Insider Reveals How To Design a Cannabis Dispensary That Customers Flock To

megan stone high road

Retail design and brand identity are pivotal to creating a successful cannabis dispensary. Here to give us some pointers is one of the industry’s top experts: Megan Stone of High Road Design Studio.

Learn more at https://www.highroadstudio.com 

Key Takeaways:

[00:46] An inside look at High Road Studio, an award-winning interior design, branding, and consulting studio for cannabis dispensaries

[1:20] Megan’s background in cannabis and how she came to start High Road

[4:08] How cannabis retail design has changed over the last five years

[8:02] The two big things you have to get right when creating a retail design

[8:51] The biggest mistakes Megan sees companies make in cannabis retail design

[12:26] The importance of leaving room for experimentation in retail design and how to do that in a safe way

[16:22] Challenges Megan encounters when moving from the design phase to the build-out phase and how she overcomes them

[20:58] What kind of budget you need to achieve a thriving retail environment and how to spend money for the biggest ROI

[31:40] Examples of brands that successfully resonate with their customers and what we can learn from them

[34:05] Where Megan sees cannabis retail heading over the next 3-5 years

Click Here to Read Full Transcript

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Matthew Kind: Hi. I'm Matt Kind. Every Monday, look for a fresh new episode where I'll take you behind the scenes and interview the insiders that are shaping the rapidly evolving cannabis industry. Learn more and CannaInsider.com. That's C-A-N-N-A-insider dot com. Now, here's your program. Today, we're going to learn about retail design and brand identity from one of the industry's top experts, Megan Stone. Megan, welcome to CannaInsider.

Megan: Thanks, Matt. I'm happy to be here.

Matt: It's been about give or take six years since you've been on the show, so I'm glad to have you back. Give the listeners a sense of geography and let us know where you are today.

Megan: Absolutely. I am sitting today in my home office in sunny, Scottsdale, Arizona.

Matt: What is High Road Studio on a high level?

Megan: We are pioneers of dispensary design. We provide, not only interior design services, but we also provide branding services to cannabis brands nationwide. Not just retailers, but we also work with a lot of product brands and ancillary companies, especially on the brand identity side. Those services outside of interior design include, everything from identity creation, packaging design, apparel design, and even interior graphics.

Matt: Can you share a bit about your background journey and how you got into the cannabis space and started High Road?

Megan: Absolutely, absolutely. I went back and listened to our first interview from 2015, and definitely dove into the same track record back then. I'll dive into here again today. I really got my cert in the cannabis industry over 10 years ago as a patient and consumer myself. I was living in Southern California. I'm a transplant from the mid-west originally, and had found myself out there after college, working around the time of the great recession. That was really my first foray into cannabis was on the consumer side.

On the consumer side, during the time when the industry was still very much nascent and quite frankly a gray-market industry. Fast forward a few years, about 2010, height of the recession, I put myself back into design school to change career paths and really pursue this passion for my career going forward. At that time, I was living in Orange County and the dispensary I worked for offer-- I wouldn't say work for. I was living in Orange County and the dispensary that I had started going to offered me a job as a bud tender.

I seized the opportunity. I was a student again, at the time, so it looked like a great part-time job to take on while I finish up my design degree. That job really has led me to where I am today. It was that introductory experience into the cannabis retail environment. Getting to play a role in interacting with the patients and seeing this industry at such an early level, that really turned me on and connected with me as someone in their new foray into a new career.

I worked for that dispensary for three years. I ended up becoming their general manager. We ended up with a couple locations. The owner ended up tapping me to provide some remodel services to our stores. That was truly what helped me first connect my passions for design and then my new-found passion for seeing this industry progress and move forward and be a viable business for people to pursue.

Once I finished school in 2013, that's when I started High Road and began this venture of transforming the cannabis retail world into something that's more respectable, more present in our communities, more understood by society, and quite frankly, a very successful business venture for any entrepreneur who pursues it and is successful in it.

Matt: That's a great background for what you're doing now. You've had boots on the ground, in the mud, understanding all the problems firsthand and that secondary, "Let's just jump into cannabis retailer design or dispensary design." Way back, even the last time we interviewed you, it's still kind of like the majority of retail shops felt more like head shops than what they've evolved into now. Can you just take us back to where we were five years ago when we spoke and how the retail experience has evolved since then?

Megan: Yes. 2015, for so many reasons feels like so many lifetimes ago. [laughs] Especially in the cannabis industry. In thinking ahead for our interview, I really reflected on this. There are so many things to add to the list of things that have changed and evolved and improved since we talked five years ago. 

One of the main things is just the vast expansion of the industry, and the fact that we can sit here today and talk about a national landscape that is enormously adult-use compared to what it was when we last talked. Not to mention the spread of good, positive medical cannabis laws. The landscape is just completely different. With that growth in the industry, it has dramatically changed the consumer who's shopping in our stores.

Now, that we're really a retail industry that caters to truly your average-day customer or your average citizen, that has really changed the way people have to operate if they're going to be competitive and successful. Our stores in general just feel and operate a lot more like a normal retail business, a lot more like a coffee shop, a clothing store, a small restaurant. All of these things are so much closer to the lives of my clients than they had been five years ago. 

Express ordering, we had begin to talk about in our conversation back in 2015, but that is something that has grown into the strong majority of a lot of people's businesses. Some of my clients report that express orders are 30% to 50% of the transactions that they process sometimes. Being able to see that trend in consumer behavior and store operations, definitely signifies the fact that consumers are maturing. They're becoming more comfortable in this retail experiences, being treated like a lot of other shopper journeys that they go on in the course of their weeks.

Product sophistication is also something else that has grown by leaps and bounds. This has so many positive impacts for store design, but also just store experience. I think everybody likes to be able to find variety, especially in this industry where we're serving such a broader base of consumers. New and novice consumers most often are looking for low-dose, mild ways of introducing themselves to cannabis.

When you walk into some of the stores in California or Michigan or Colorado, the variety, the sophistication, the ways of consuming cannabis is completely different than it was five years ago. That has really made it a big impact on how stores have to present this product, educate their consumers, how they sell things. It has had tremendous impact on what we have to do as designers and what our clients need to be good with in their day-to-day operations.

Matt: If you were creating a retail environment, what are the first two big things that you feel like, "Hey, if you're going to get a few things totally right, focus on these two as the big things to get right in terms of design elements or architectural design or just what you see?"

Megan: I would have to say that the two most important things that any retailer should focus on first, especially if you can only really choose two things or your resources are limited, is your brand and your space plan. Those two things alone can really impact all decisions that come forward in either a positive or a negative way.

Matt: I'm not really fluent in the vocabulary of design, but I know when I go in some place and I don't like the-- I don't know, is the feng shui, feng shui? I never know how to pronounce that. I'm just like, "Gosh. I just feel like there's something in the way here and I can't get around it. I feel like I have to pivot and roll away or something. It just doesn't feel right," or, "I'm crapped or this barista table is to high." I don't know.

I don't have the vocabulary to describe it, but I know something is out of place. Let's look at the flip-side of this. What are the most common mistakes you see in retail design where you go, "Oh, wow. This happened again? These are mistakes people make over and over and over again that are avoidable"?

Megan: When we're talking about clients on a limited budget, this is actually often times where we'll bring up one of our services called a Retail Audit. It's a concept of spending a little bit of money for a consultation so that you can get some direction on where to spend the rest of your money. If you're working with a limited budget, you can very quickly invest those dollars in the wrong area and then need to spend more money to correct and fix.

Matt: Now, is there anything that owners are convinced or the business operators are convinced they needed in a retail environment but are a bad idea? Like, for example, if I wanted a huge chocolate waterfall or for a toilet made out of gold? Would you shy me away from that? I’m kidding. Is there anything that you feel like, “Gosh, they're kind of putting so much focus on this, but that's not the most important thing. Maybe they should be looking at lighting, or drawing people deeper into the dispensary, or something else?”

Megan: Categorically, no, because it is a challenge that has a lot of different variables, and oftentimes can be solved with a really creative balancing of things. Architecture can be such a huge factor in what this answer can kind of be. What works in somebody's space might not ever work for another person simply because of the shape of the space that they're working with.

It's a hard question to answer, I wouldn't say that there's categorically something that we've run into often that owners think they want, and we end up talking them out of. I would say, in general, we always approach store design from a brand-centric position. Your brand is really your guiding compass on decisions that you're going to make all throughout the design process and all throughout the operations of your store.

That brand can really tell us a lot because that brand is going to tell us things about who you are and how you operate, and who you want to serve, and what your tone, your style, or your personality, your voice is. We usually use those things as the driving principles around the design decisions that we help our clients make.

Because brand is different for everybody, it can really play out differently. That's where there really aren't any hard knows in design, except around things like building codes, stuff like that. It's definitely more of a conversation and marrying all of the different variables from architecture to brand, to security and regulations and budget into a solution that works for a client.

Matt: It's kind of a hard balance here. Because after you create this awesome design and you feel really comfortable with it, there might be a temptation to think, to stagnate, or to not experiment with the design. How do you allow for room for experimentation within a design? I'm thinking now about all these retail cannabis companies that they've overnight had to move to more a grab and go curbside pickup as being a bigger portion of their business. It's like, how do they experiment to make sure that's optimized for the best customer experience? Do you know what I mean? How do they allow for that improvisation to happen?

Megan: That's always a challenge of-- I think in a lot of ways, the day-to-day life of a retail operator is a lot of improvisation that comes across to the average customer, as careful choreography. Operating these stores is no small feat and there's so many moving parts in any retail business, especially this one, for sure. You bring up a good point, with COVID. It's a great example of, I think the point you're trying to hone in on.

That is how do we approach design, something that has to be built, installed, and somewhat static in an industry where things are constantly changing, pandemic aside. That is really always a trick. I don't know if I can say any of our designs are going to last to 10 years because that's just the pace of how quickly this industry is changing, and then how differently clients, businesses change in general.

We're always, hoping that our clients are being forthcoming with their future plans and kind of looking ahead really in that three, five, seven-time year timeframe, which seems to go by very, very quickly for a lot of people. We're wanting to adapt or build in adaptability with fixtures. We want to think through the pieces of the design the pieces of the program, on the pieces of the architecture that would be very difficult to change down the road, should things dramatically be different.

We have a lot of conversations about this around payment systems because I think that's going to be the next huge catalyst in cannabis retail and the biggest thing that's going to-- I think it's going to be the next biggest catalyst and a big thing to affect the retail environment is in the forthcoming change to being able to pay with credit cards, being able to pay for this online before you get to the store.

We see that in markets here and there on a small scale, but we are far from having that be an industry-wide standard. We have to just really approach flexibility with space planning with fixturing, with the mix of permanent architectural improvements, and things that can adapt day-to-day and be changed out year-to-year if needed.

Matt: The payments and touchless payments and so forth really will be a catalyst. I saw that Amazon filed a patent for technology that allows them to ship you products before you've even ordered them. I'm thinking, "How in the hell do they do?" Like, "What is that algorithm like? How do they know what I'm thinking about? Is it my behavior online?" It's like, "Where's this going? I'm just going to think about something that's going to arrive?" I don’t know. Maybe.

Megan: Yes.

Matt: Let's move on to the designs phase, and also the drawings. You have everything done in drawings, it's easy to change things then. When you finally get the go-ahead to move forward and do the build-out, is there typically some challenges you run into? I would imagine, when you're working with contractors and so forth, and what kind are the typical challenges, then how do you surmount those things?

Megan: If you've ever done anything construction related, even a simple update to your powder room at home, you will know that construction is full of surprises. We have to set the expectation with clients that the construction process is not a linear one, especially when our clients are doing tenant improvements, or they're remodeling an existing space, that is definitely something that somebody has to go into expecting.

If your contractor or if your architect, if your designer hasn't had that real-life conversation with you, if they told you that everything is going to go perfectly, and they're the person who will ensure that there will never be a hiccup, turn around and run, because nobody has that power. This is really where communication, some expertise, and a little humility go a long way in your project team partners. Good communication is essential for design, for construction, and for the completion of these projects successfully.

In construction, there are pretty industry-standard ways of a project team communicating during construction, because architects have to be able to get their job done on the permitting, the construction documentation, the health and safety side of what is going to get built. That's their liability and their department, but they're usually championing or representing a design put forward by a designer, if all of these aren't coming from the same person.

A designer has to make sure the architect is fully on board and understanding of the design intent behind what the designer has put forward. Understands why things are where they are, why things are the way they are, and is really on board with wanting to fulfill the client's vision through the design that they have paid for.

Then you have the contractor. The contractor's main job, really is to build something on time and on budget. They're not that design professional, although a lot of contractors do have a good eye for design. Not all but some do. They're really the ones swinging the hammers, running into the things on the field, procuring a lot of the materials that are going to be installed and put into the space. They have an incredibly important role. It's really that general contractor where you can really have a lot of benefit on your project and really see some difference in your bottom line. If you're able to get some really good project management and administrative support from that general contractor that you use.

Of course, with anybody designer, or architect, contractor. Cup of coffee, you tend to get what you pay for and often time the added cost upfront of a project manager, a full-time superintendent on your project that is nothing compared to how costly it will be if your project doesn't get done on time. If changes come up in the field that aren't addressed properly. If things don't get built right and they have to be ripped out because there was a breaking communication between the project team.

All of those things can go wrong and do go wrong. It really comes back to communication, making sure everybody's on the same page, and having a project team that can work with each other and understands their roles, and how they can play a big role in recovery during the construction phase.

Matt: Budget is such a big part of the process, if you get the design wrong it affects so many things downstream in terms of the look in the field of construction so when I'm talking to a business owner or an investor about it, I really tell them-- You don't want to cut corners here because it's going to affect everything downstream and those changes tend to be more permanent than temporary, and you can get the wrong feel for your dispensary. It can feel like a Foot Locker instead of an Apple store, but at the same time, you don't want to needlessly spend." What's the right balance, what can you tell us about budget and build-outs?

Megan: Budget is such an important and difficult area around what we do and it can affect so many things. As I've mentioned, in some of the previous questions, there are so many different ways to go about choosing how to spend money in a retail space. I think one of the most important and valuable things that a design partner can bring to the table is helping try and figure out where to spend that money in a way that you're going to have some return on investment.

You do need to come to the table and you do need to come into this conversation as a client with a little bit of education around what this process is going to take. Professionals have to be involved up front to design, to document, to permit, to bid, to source everything before anybody is really even swinging a hammer and showing up on your job site. That's not just the design team that's involved in that process there.

Really getting a feel for the consultants and the professionals, you're going to need is a good place to start. If you find that your budget is too limited to even hire a full-blown project team and you're really going to need to limit yourself to potentially just a contractor or a contractor and an architect depending on the scope of the improvements you want to make. That's a really important thing to know because it's going to be hard to include a designer in that process if your budget can’t even stretch that far.

That being said, a couple of hours with the designer and consultation can really help give you some creative ideas and show you some ways to spend a limited budget. However, for the businesses that are going into this with some familiarity and are prepared to put some capital into their space, and are really looking for how to do this right and how to plan this accordingly, and are prepared to really line up that capital to do so.

Then we really get into questions of business model and business strategy, and of course, at the core of that business strategy is usually the retail brand. Again, even in the budget process, we're really trying to learn about the brand because the brand will inform so much about the caliber of design, the level of sophistication of the environment, how people are going to shop it, how the business is going to operate it, and that can really help have that next layer of a budget conversation.

If you're going to be a luxury retailer, you are going to be in a different category of budget than somebody who is trying to be more of a local value-driven mom and pop shop potentially. Brand can really tell us a lot. Also if your brand voice lends itself to something edgier, less sophisticated, potentially more youthful, more industrial, that's going to be a very different level of fit and finish and build out than, again, somebody who's really going for a more intimate upscale refined shopping experience.

In general, design is certainly a factor and can drive a budget significantly, but it truly is the starting point and only one factor in the overall equation for the retail development. You have to consider your real estate first and foremost. You have to understand from an architect and a contractor's perspective what money is going to have to go into that property just bring it up to code. Just to bring it to what we call a Vanilla Shell, which would be a finished space ready for branding, fixtures, custom finishes, I wouldn't even say custom finishes, but just anything about builder-grade type finishes.

That can be a big impediment in and of itself because we've gone down the path with clients who were moving into older, more historic buildings, where, even though they've got a designer or an architect and contractor all engaged from the project from the get-go, everybody's been on-site, everybody understands the site conditions that we can see. We still had to go back and do some major redesigns because once construction started, and they were actually able to open up walls and begin really examining structure and what was there.

They had to divert hundreds of thousands of dollars to things like structural enhancements, code changes, fire safety things. Those were things that even with all the planning and professionals around them that they had, these were things that really couldn't have been found until you got started on the construction. Design is an important factor in the beginning, but a lot of things can shift and a good consultation and a good project team around you can really help guide you from start to finish and kind of what budget expectations can be.

Matt: Yes. I think about when we were talking five years ago.

Megan: Yes. It seemed like the only consideration for, not the only, but most of the mindset was like how much THC per gram can I sell? That was top of mind for everybody because everybody always wanted THC and now I'm hearing what you're saying in brand voice and things like that it's just wow. It's really come a long way and I don't always appreciate it, but it truly has.

Let's move on to brand and talk about that a little bit. If you were starting a brand from just nothing, let's just say your own brand, your retail brand, how would you start to think about it? You're going out for a walk and you're thinking, "What do I want my brand to be? How do I want someone when they walk out of the store, how do they want that experience to be, they’d love to think about it?"

Megan: I like to use the analogy that branding is a lot like naming a child and thinking about the human that you might want to rear. You get to in a lot of ways influence what that is, but after a certain point, that brand is going to have a life of their own and the peers of the brand are going to truly come to define what that brand is. Then the onset, you want to be asking yourself questions about who you are, but also who you want to be. Who you serve, and who you want to serve.

Again, things I've mentioned like your tone and your voice, your style, your values, considering what you do is also important. I think the cannabis industry went through a phase over the last few years where we kind of swung this pendulum of wanting our businesses to not have any reference to cannabis at all. We didn't want it to use a pot leaf, a green cross, we didn't want to use canna, we didn't want to use green.

We wanted to make our businesses cannabis agnostic almost for the sake of blending in with our communities, feeling normal, attracting a mainstream consumer, and rebranding what cannabis had always been in front of everybody. We're really starting to see the swing back to that and that's why I really say, thinking about what you do as you form your brand, I think you do have to make sure that you form a brand that can somehow be recognized and signify what you do. It is helpful to have some association, some reference, something that can make some sense to a consumer, especially in a landscape like cannabis right now, where competition is so wide and people are now exhausting this whole, "We don't have anything to do with cannabis." People are swinging back and wanting their brands to be a little bit more associated and a little bit more representative of the fact that "Hey, we do sell pot."

Those are a lot of the things that we get our clients thinking about at the beginning of the branding process. Because the goal isn't just to create a brand that our clients personally like, the bigger goal is to create a brand that's going to be successful in the marketplace, that's going to speak to the type of customer that you want to attract, that's going to represent your business in a way that serves your business's interests, which oftentimes truly are different from your personal interests.

Those are really the starting points for really crafting that brand identity. We use answers to those questions and the strategy behind them to build a visual identity system, choose a name, signify materials that work for the brand, ways of customer service that have to be reflected and accommodated in the design and the layout, and the fixturing. That truly is our starting point for everything that the business is going to need to grow into from there.

Matt: When you think about your client base and the ones that have done things well, where they take their brand and translate that well to online, in terms of social media and they're what you said earlier, the brand voice on social media, so it resonates in the same way as the physical location. Is there any that stick out in your mind and the way that they do that and how do they do that?

Megan: One that always sticks out to me, it's a client that we're just infinitely proud of for the business they operate, and who they've become is Maitri, M-A-I-T-R-I. You can find them on Instagram @maitrimedicinals. They're a brand based in Western Pennsylvania, and they've put a lot of effort into building their brand presence on social media, as well as in the community.

They've been heavily involved in many different community organizations. They've activated their brand in apparel and merchandising that has really taken off in the most viral way. They've done a great job. When you go to their social media platforms, you can't help but see it.

What's interesting about them is given the regulations in Pennsylvania, they're really only allowed to use their social media as an education tool. They can't talk about specials, they can't talk about sales. Everything that they post has to go through an approval process prior to it going online. There's a lot of strategy that they have to put into this to do it well. Again, you will instantly see how well they truly do it.

From their brand standard photography to the cycle they take of, not only talking about their staff and sharing personal stories about their own staffs' medical use of cannabis and how cannabis has changed their lives via their blog, but they also share everything they're doing in the community, all the ways they're getting involved. They've really helped make it be known that cannabis retailers can be a true pillar in their community and truly walk the walk and talk the talk when it comes to being a wellness-focused community-centric business.

Matt: Just as we evolved so much in the last five years since we talked, Megan, where do you think things are going in the next five years, so we can stand on the curve? I know you have no crystal ball, but I think it's much better than anybody who's listening as crystal ball. We're listening intently here.

Megan: The next five years. Oh my goodness. I think we're about ready to see some, some even bigger shifts than we've already been seen. I recently saw a quote from Jeff Bezos from, I think it was 1999, and he very succinctly in two, maybe even three, I don't even think it was three sentences, basically said, and I will paraphrase that, "By the year 2020 retailers either have to offer a damn good experience or a damn good product, or else they will lose their sales to a digital world."

That I think is the reality that us in the cannabis industry are soon going to truly begin grappling with in the way that so many of our retail peers in other industries have already had to start figuring out. I think that this is a good thing. I think that your average cannabis company is capable of being very highly successful in a digital world.

I think that the role that this now leads the dispensary to being able to play is going to allow for even more creativity and innovation because these dispensaries are going to have to be experiential brand centers and they're going to have to really showcase products in a way that puts them on a pedestal and shows them for all the beauty that they hold.

That I think is going to bring some really great opportunity to us as designers, both on the customer side of the retail space, but in putting some good creativity and some business-minded strategy behind how we develop the back of house for our clients. It comes back to that space plan and that brand that we've talked about at the beginning of our call. Those two things are going to continue to play such an important role in store development going forward.

The balance of these things is going to change. Space planning, I think in the future is going to be a lot less about accommodating really high volumes of traffic in the front of house and more about accommodating high volumes of order fulfillment through different channels in the back of house. Did I say that the wrong way around? [laughs]

Matt: No, you said it the right way.

Megan: I was like, "Did I say back of house or so?"

Matt: We're going to curbside online ordering and less through the front door, as you might think. Yes, exactly. That makes a lot of sense.

Megan: Or even delivery. Delivery is one of these things that isn't all as a guarantee. When we are interviewing clients and learning about their businesses, I would still say about half are allowed delivery, and half are still waiting for it to be permitted. That's another thing that can be a big game-changer if you've allocated space to really operate that

Matt: Good points. Megan, I want to turn to some personal development questions. Is there a book that's had a big impact on your life or way of thinking that you'd like to share?

Megan: Yes, there are two books that I feel still provide the undercurrent to how Meghan Stone operates. Professionally with what I do in retail design, I am always amazed with how much Paco Underhill's Why We Buy book has really influenced and provided such a basic core knowledge around so many decisions and ways of approaching and looking at the retail space and consumer behavior.

That is still the book that when I hire people onto my team, if they haven't read it, I buy them a copy so that they can read it. It's just a really great reminder of the fact that, at the end of the day, stores are about spaces that humans move in and make a purchase in. There's a lot of complexity around that. That's always a book that I like to circle back to and constantly reference in my memory.

Personally, I think my adult life has been most influenced by The Secret, the adaptation of the principles of the law of attraction that came out probably 10 or 15 years ago now. I feel like as a young adult, when I first started studying the law of attraction and the science behind how your thoughts truly create the reality around you. I feel like that was a personal game-changer for me and something that I constantly have to come back to in my adult life and remind myself of-- One of the things that every time I do, I'm always proven that it is a true science and something to never forget.

Matt: Great points. Boy, have you attracted into your life a lot of what you wanted, your business has really grown and flourished over the last five years. What about, what's the most interesting thing going on in the cannabis space besides what you're doing at High Road?

Megan: There's a lot of interesting stuff going on in cannabis. I think generally, just the extreme pace of development and I think the spread of adult-use cannabis is for all of us, who've been in this industry for a minute or longer, just a source of constant surprise. It's weird that we've almost gotten used to seeing states pass these measures on their own nowadays, whereas such a short time ago, the amount of lobbying, the amount of marketing, campaigning, political ambassadorship that had to be done to change public perception was nothing short of a small miracle.

Here in Arizona, we're getting ready to see our medical cannabis market transition into direct sales. Seeing it really happen in my own household and in my backyard is definitely keeping me and my local proximity pretty excited. This has been a medical market with limited licenses, but pretty liberal qualifying conditions. It's been one of the most interesting markets from that standpoint to just watch grow over the last few years even as it's only been medical.

The transition of seeing it go rack given the tourism economy that's here, the population growth that Arizona is going through, and the way that they've structured the recreational law to still keep it a limited number of licenses and a little bit of control over the spread of the industry, I think is going to be a really interesting thing to play out. That's just Arizona. I imagine that every state that passed laws back in November also has the same very interesting nuances and things to look forward to over the next five years.

Matt: Megan, as we close, can you just remind business owners, investors, the services you provide and how to find you?

Megan: Absolutely. High Road is pioneer and premier provider in the US of cannabis design services. Whether that's retail interior design or brand identity, packaging, and apparel design services. You can find us and more about our business and our past work on our website. It is highoadstudio.com and that is High, spelled H-I-G-H, of course. You can also follow us on Instagram @highroadstudio.

Matt: Well, Megan, thanks so much for coming on the show. Really appreciate it and I can't imagine what this industry is going to look like if we wait another five years before our next interview. Good luck to you in 2021 and all the best.

Megan: You as well, Matt. Thank you so much.

Matt: If you enjoyed the show today, please consider leaving us a review on iTunes, Stitcher, or whatever app you might be using to listen to the show. Every five-star review helps us to bring the best guests to you. Learn more at cannainsider.com/iTunes. What are the five disruptive trends that will impact the cannabis industry in the next five years? Find out with your free report at cannainsider.com/trends.

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[00:44:31] [END OF AUDIO]