The Grow Room of the Future is Here Now with Michael Kadonoff

michael kadanoff braingrid

Michael Kadonoff is the Founder and CEO of Braingrid. Braingrid allows any non-technical person to hang little devices around your grow room and immediately start collecting data about your grow. Including temperature, humidity, CO2 and more. Learn how growers are harnessing this data to build the grow rooms of the future today.

Learn More:

http://braingrid.io/

 

Key Takeaways:

– Michael’s background as an inventor and at GE

– What growers think they know about their garden is actually not wrong but incomplete

– How Braingrid’s Sentroller collects data and presents that data as insights

– Will this system increase your yield or your efficiency

– Preventing mold and equipment failure

– Creating redundancy in your grow

– Traceability and health compliance

– Michael’s favorite book and tool

Read Full Transcript

One of the most helpful and powerful new tools in the cannabis cultivators toolbox is data. Data that can help growers understand all the variables of their grow at a glance so they can react, pivot, and plan their way to an abundant harvest. Here to tell us about the latest in the connected grow room is Michael Kadanoff of Braingrid. Michael, welcome to "CannaInsider."

Michael: Thank you so much, Matt, for having me. It's a pleasure to be here.

Matthew: Michael, give us a sense of geography. Where are you in the world today?

Michael: Braingrid is based in Toronto, Ontario, Canada.

Matthew: Okay. And what is Braingrid at a high level so people can understand?

Michael: Braingrid is a technology company. It would be considered an IoT company, I guess. But it spans vertically, everything from hardware, our own design hardware, produced hardware, all the way through to visualizations, and reports, and dashboard, the whole the whole kit caboodle.

Matthew: Okay. And can you share a little bit about your background, and journey, and how you came to start Braingrid?

Michael: Well, my background is, well, I'm truly an inventor by night and an engineer by day. My last life, I was a designer, a hardware designer for General Electric. I was responsible for designing things that kept the lights on on the energy grid, a fascinating role. And now, I'm into the IoT game with Braingrid. I started Braingrid because I realized that technology is hard. Getting data is hard. Understanding how to use that data and interpreting that data is hard. And at GE, we make great products, a very difficult to the commission and install. And I set out to answer the question of how can you know your role better? Because if you know it, you can actually affect it, you can control your destiny inside of it. You can reduce your cost. And we'll get into all that, of course.

Matthew: Sure. Well, tell us a little bit about your flagship product, the Sentroller. I mean, since we're in a audio medium here, maybe you could tell us a little bit about how big it is, what it does, and why it's important to have in the grow room?

Michael: Okay, sure. Well, it starts with a Sentroller. Although, that's not the only part of our product line of course. The Sentroller itself is a little white box as I tell my daughter that tells you if the plants are happy or sad. It's about the size of an iPad mini.

Matthew: Okay.

Michael: It's a little thicker. It's rounded in shape. You can visit it on our website. It's a pretty different looking device because it's meant to actually exist in a grow environment or outdoors. So it's pretty tough. But it doesn't look like your traditional box.

Matthew: Okay.

Michael: I'm a little biased but I think it looks great.

Matthew: Yeah, it's pretty sleek, okay. And so it's important to have in the grow room because at a high level, it gives you data on your plants?

Michael: Correct.

Matthew: Okay.

Michael: It's meant to blend into the background and not just in the grow room. It can exist in any part of the facility. And commonly, we go to the drawing room or the vault. It can be placed outdoors, if need be, to capture other conditions like weather.

Matthew: Okay. I think it would be helpful for us to talk a little bit about maybe what a legacy grow room would look like, one that doesn't have all the bells and whistles, and technology, and the Internet of Things, and everything you do with Braingrid, and then contrast it to kind of a fully connected grow environment that has Braingrid. And you can kind of walk through the differences and the kind of the benefits, if that sounds good.

Michael: Sure. Sure, sure. So growers or growing facilities today are met with a myriad of ideas and opportunities to control and monitor the room. But traditionally, they're dealing with control and automation company. So that's the systems that are very heavy, very hard to install, large panels on walls, a few sensor points that require, again, a lot of commissioning and an installation effort from very skilled people. Well, think of electricians and technicians and that, you know, data acquisition people, building automation people.

So the end result here is that we have very expensive and pretty rigid system meant for controlling a building more than it is for monitoring a grow environment. So what that results in is that we have very expensive systems that offer very little data and requires that the grower, a person who's not necessarily an IT guru or a technology guru, to understand and interact with the system. And often, the system doesn't rely information outside of the building. So when everybody goes home for the weekend, you don't even know what's going on. So you'll basically see at a high level, you'll see a master guru running a, you know, 25,000-square foot facility being thrust into a campus of hundreds of thousands if not millions of square feet with their old SOPs, like manual processes and fixed growing recipes.

They were basing their whole life around anecdotal results and inconsistent outcomes. And they're not even considering energy yet. So all they have in their toolbox is usually one sensor, two sensors per room and rooms of thousands of square feet. So it's okay for today. And what investment in this market now wants is more scale, but the growers want easy to use systems, and no one really cares about efficiency. So that, you know, I don't know if you want me to get to the next step but what we really do here is comment on the three main things responsible for growing, okay?

Matthew: Yeah. Let's talk about that. What are the three main things?

Michael: You could group them inside of quantity, quality, or time. And I'll explain what each one of those means.

Matthew: Okay.

Michael: Quantity is just sheer number of grams or ounces or pounds, it doesn't really matter. You know, if you have more pounds, you have more product, you have more money. So that's obvious. But it's more than that. There is quality. So a lower yield in terms of THC or even CBD, even though you have lots of grams may not actually work. So you now actually have to get the yield as well as the number of grams. And then finally, assuming you have quantity and quality, what about time? If it takes you, you know, four months to put out a yield, which is obviously silly. That's not good either. So as an extreme storyline, you know, you can have lots of quantity in a short time. But you actually have very poor yield.

So we try to impact any one of those three metrics in a variety of ways. What we really do is just make it easy to buy, easy to install, and easy to use to get data that affects any one of those three things. So it's now a reality to put in hundreds or even thousands of measured points in a grow environment, all the way through the facility to understand microclimates, to use us like an early warning system or scout to protect and act against bad things like mold or equipment failure before they happen. We can validate growing recipes, provide redundant real-time measurements of existing systems when they're in place because they usually are.

We can tie in the supply chain into the growing practice and really what that means is identify best and worst in class not just in the rooms, not just the facility but across a country or even a state or province. And then finally, I think it's a little not exciting is traceability and health compliance. We can bring a level of awareness to auditors and the governments, and the regulators that is so needed for this industry to take off properly to provide that legitimacy. So that was a long-winded answer.

Matthew: No, no, that's good. Tell us a little bit about what variables are measured in the grow room in terms of, you know, humidity, and temperature, and all those different things?

Michael: Well, so there are a variety of things to measure. And let's just establish one thing. Braingrid is not a sensor company. We're a data acquisition analytics knowledge company, really. Of course, we have to collect the data to deliver that but the straight answer is the typical default solution is temperature, relative humidity, and carbon dioxide in the air. And that's an in grow environment. It can get more advanced. You can have air flow, oxygen, even trace gases being monitored in the air quality, again, other zones of interest or things like energy quality like consumption or equipment use, nutrient quality, electrical conductivity or EC, volumetric water content, DH, total dissolved solids, nitrogen, phosphorus, potassium, level flow. The list goes on. And frankly, there are thousands and thousands of opportunities to measure anywhere. But the defaults, the go-to solutions because they work in so many possible ways is temp humidity and CO2 usually.

Matthew: Okay. So at the center of this Braingrid is the Sentroller or is that like the...it's the brain that takes all the data from the sensors that can be third-party, and it collects them and puts them into actionable data so you could have insights, and you could take action, and learn about what's going on your grow which is a...is that a good summation?

Michael: It is. And I'll add only just one more thing that makes it really different. And remember, the Sentroller is just the tip of the iceberg.

Matthew: Right.

Michael: The special sauce of our hardware product, the Sentroller, is the fact that anybody can install it. It requires little to no maintenance, it's online in minutes, truly minutes. And it requires no IT support or Wi-Fi passwords or anything really. It usually just sticks to the wall magnetically and it's up. So it's like instant awareness, instant bionic eyes right there for the grower.

Matthew: Okay. So it skips Wi-Fi it goes over some sort of other wireless medium?

Michael: Yes, that's right. Locally, we use a very long range transceiver. It's based on a Lora, L-O-R-A. And that whole infrastructure relays to a cellular gateway, which looks exactly like a Sentroller, again, which we call the Synapse. That takes the data from the facility to our, you know, through very, very rigorous security practices to our stack, or network stack, and our data leak for further analysis, analytics, representation, alarming, you name it.

Matthew: Okay. So you have the Sentroller installed. It's wireless, it just sticks to the wall, and then the Synapse is the cellular gateway. And so let's just kind of walk through, let's say I'm a grower or a business owner, I've just implemented some Braingrid solutions. I was kind of just doing everything by kind of a stare and compare before, and just kind of anecdotal evidence. And now, install everything that's suggested, do it myself. Do you have an app or a web dashboard? What's next?

Michael: Of course, it's a web dashboard that accessible anywhere in the world, allows you to, at a very high level, see the facility for its status because no news is good news, and a lot of the times you don't need to stare at a graph. You just need to know if everything's okay based on the alarms the grower or cultivator sets out. So our dashboards are there for them to log into anywhere in the world, and it's mobile-friendly, and it just gives you straightforward answers about what's going on, red or green, good or bad.

What we find, that's really interesting, is because we can measure so many things with a granularity that is unprecedented, we find that the growers have this sense of disbelief, you know, especially after they spent about a million bucks on a grow system or from building automation system, they simply don't believe that microclimates can exist in a premier growing environment. So the absolute disbelief in their eyes is great to see, but it's telltale that there's so much room for the understanding of microclimates, and the nuances of a room, and degradation of equipment. So it's really not about the data, it's about how easy it is to get the data. That's clearly the statement of the day.

Matthew: And is there a common theme you see for someone that's looking at the dashboard for the first time, or they say, "Wow, you know, just for my first visit, this is the most helpful thing. You know, everything is helpful here, but right away, this is helpful."

Michael: Right away, the first thing they notice or tell us is, "Wow, this is so easy. I can understand it so much easier. It's all here," are the statements we hear time and time again.

Matthew: Okay.

Michael: Nobody really wants another engineering-focused engineered product for only engineers. This is a product for growers. It gives them eyes, new eyes. Doesn't tell them how to do their job, it doesn't even replace them. That's not the point. It's enabling. That's the message I want to leave you with.

Matthew: Okay, that makes sense. So if I'm staring over your shoulder as you walk me through the dashboard, what does it look like? What am I looking at?

Michael: When you first logged in, you're met with a heads-up display of the devices and their zones as a...just a heads-up. So this is what's going on. And you'll see alarms above the zones if there are any, which you can click on and dive deep on. They can pull up charts, graphs, reports. You can also go into a more advanced alarm view where you can start sliding things around to tune in your critical and your warning levels for any of the metrics we collect for humidity, temperature, CO2.

There are kind of heads-up warnings. So one of the things is kind of cool that the growers like is a distribution of humidity for instance. It's like a pie chart, and it tells you what was too high, what was okay, and what was not like, you know, warning, critical, and okay, and the ratios of that. That's kind of a really great way to tell if your HVAC systems is fighting or it's well-controlled. So it's really about turning the data into insights or into knowledge really quickly, taking a sip from Niagara Falls is the analogy I like to use. And the dashboard just facilitates that. It's about getting right now what's going on. And if there are any issues, the grower or the finance body can just dive in and understand what's going on. The last part of the dashboard I should just share is reporting.

Matthew: Okay.

Michael: If an auditor shows up, you need to be able to demonstrate, for instance, the last six months of the environment, like, can you split? You can't pull out filing cabinets and paper records, it has to be demonstrated immediately.

Matthew: Yeah.

Michael: So with one-click, we can deliver that through the dashboard as well.

Matthew: Okay. And give us a sense of how many Sentrollers and what's needed for, all let's say an average grow?

Michael: Well, okay. Sentrollers are capable of measuring multiple points. So every grower environment, every facility is very different not just because of that...Every facility is dependent on the growing situation, their municipal water supply. I'll cut to the chase and just say, we usually see about 10 cents a square foot or about 2 cents a gram, and we're subscription model. So they don't really pay for the product, the Sentroller, they pay for the data, which is really great because, again, it's easy, you know? If ever there's an equipment problem where somebody smashes one of our devices or lands in a puddle or whatever. It's just another replacement, it's not a big deal.

Matthew: Okay. That brings my next question. This gives an idea of cost here. So, you know, growers and business owners can understand, you know, what it would take to invest in this and to get started.

Michael: Typically because the sensors are something we have to buy as well, there's a small upfront fee to match the sensing requirements that they have. And then after that, it's about $30 a point per month indefinitely. However, because there's a sense of disbelief about these prices, we're doing a trial program with Ample Organics, our partner right, now to do two basic air quality Sentrollers for two months and gets about a cycle to really help you understand what's going on your grow without any risk. And that delivers temperature, humidity, and CO2.

Matthew: Okay.

Michael: Yeah.

Matthew: So, you know, we talked a little bit about microclimates, and there's hot spots and stuff and grows, and if you look at like an infrared overlays, you can see like, "Wow, this this spot shouldn't be hot but it is." I mean, it looks like there's air flow, and, you know, the lights are placed evenly. But if this is bright red right here for some reason and then...well, why do you think that happens?

Michael: Oh man, do you have a minute?

Matthew: Yeah, yeah, let's hear it.

Michael: Oh, man. Microclimates are a real thing. Namely, I think the first reason that it happen is because the room is a dynamic thing now. It's literally a biological entity. Plants grow, they start out as little things in the veg stage just after they've been cloned or, you know, when they're babies, effectively. But then they get much larger. And then the airflow conditions change because their stores are different, the HVAC is loaded heavier because the transpiration rate is higher. The amount of CO2 changes because they need to consume more. The amount of water then changes, the nutrients change. Everything just a moving target. There are thousands upon thousands of variables. And I'm not excluding the people that enter the room and exit the room.

So microclimates and the results of microclimates are a function of how the ecosystem there changes dominantly with the plants as they grow. I've heard some crazy numbers where there are liters per plant per day being transpired into the air. An HVAC system has to be able to deal with that at times however many thousand plants there are.

Matthew: Yeah, you can feel for sure in there when you go into a grow room.

Michael: And we can see the...sorry, we could see the signatures of that when an HVAC system shows signs of stress where it can...it's got the set point and the building system is doing its job, but it's struggling to keep that humidity in check or that temperature in check because as there's thousand HBS lights in a room or something like that, and there's new plants or, you know, they spray the room down with a fungicide. It creates huge spikes to the plant, and that can actually can really affect yield. I've heard some interesting outcomes from keeping the room consistent. Our own master grower suggests that, you know, it's very important to keep room consistent.

So microclimates are kind of the evil enemy of these growers. And they can lead to crop ending outbreaks and mold. They can lead to burnt sections of the room. They can lead to disposal and cleanup efforts. It's not fun. And it's important to catch it before it happens. So really, we're dealing with is, and I'll get to what we're gonna deliver soon. I'll leave it there.

Matthew: Yeah. Mold, fungus, insects, these are all problems. And they do happen. I've seen them myself and it's a tragedy. So let's say we're like a few weeks in or a month into to some clones, and we can see our HVAC system, we're saying, "Hey, this is looking like it's already starting to struggle as these plants get even larger, we're gonna have a breaking point here where it's not gonna be able to suck the temperature humidity out at the rate we need." How would this system recognize that the HVAC system is struggling or perhaps a dehumidifier or something like that?

Michael: It's when the measured point, let's call it humidity, goes above the threshold, that the growers establishes for a period of time that is not acceptable. That's a fancy way of saying it alarms.

Matthew: Right.

Michael: It just alarms. And it's, again, green and red, good and bad. More advanced things in our roadmap are to understand trends, deeper trends, deeper learning through watching thousands of cycles and hundreds of HVAC systems to see that, yeah, this thing will fail in two weeks, better call your HVAC company and here's the number. You know, that's the kind of knowledge and service we wanna deliver to our customers. We're not there exactly yet, but we've already uncovered some really alarming things that we've saved a few rooms on already, I'd say. I mean, avoiding our crop failures, $800,000 in a small room, that's just the product, you know?

Matthew: Right.

Michael: The size of the product is definitely there.

Matthew: Yeah. Yeah, this is a good business to be in here because, you know, all you have to ask is like how much can you afford for your crop to fail? And everybody's gonna say, "Oh, I can't." So there needs to be some sort of measure. And now, what about in terms of alerts, like, if I see that humidity or temperature in the middle of the night has crossed a threshold, can you get alerted by about that or how does that work?

Michael: Yes. Of course, you can get alerted not just you, anybody you set to be alerted and based on the criticality of it. So there are warning levels and then there are critical levels. And clearly, it goes up the totem pole when it gets too critical. The alerts come in the form through our dashboard, of course, and through emails, text alerts are also a possibility if a customer requests it. So the whole message here is awareness, catching it before things go off the rails is really...an ounce of prevention is worth a pound of cure is the analogy.

Matthew: So we've heard about the Internet of Things, is this considered the Internet of Things. I know that's kind of a nebulous concept to some extents. I mean can we call it that?

Michael: Yeah, you can call with that. It's absolutely a wireless sensor note in the most basic version of life. However, I think Braingrid is really honored IoT, in the fundamentals of IOT, because it is low cost which means it's for anyone. And it's many of them. We can literally go to any plant, multiple points per plant or any part of the facility and measure things that matter to the bottom line of the business. It's extremely low-power, which means we can go to the table and we don't need a plug, right? That has to happen. Doesn't need batteries. Doesn't need anything. And frankly, it should be forgotten, it should just disappear into the background and just be that ever watching on to protect the investors, to protect the growers, to increase the peace of mind.

And that my favorite...And this is where the patent lies inside of the Sentroller, and not to say that that's the only area of our innovation, is that it harvests energy, it's always available. It never ever stops watching stuff. And that's critical for such a valuable product that is creating jobs and using a ton of energy. And is really bringing in a new market that hasn't been seen a new capitalist market that hasn't been seen for many, many years now, so it's necessary.

Matthew: Yeah. It reminds me of this quote I heard that said, "AI won't replace humans but humans using AI will replace humans that don't use it."

Michael: Yeah.

Matthew: So it's like once you get these tools that leverage technology, and a connectivity, and can do things that's just like it's a super tool in your tool belt. So what kind of bump in yield can growers expect and the business owners expect? Because people wear different hats, sometimes they're growers, sometimes they're the business owner and they look at this from different perspectives. And so if I'm a business owner, I'm saying, "Well, I do want to avoid the worst case scenario and I wanna get alerted if temperature, you know, humidity gets too high. That's a huge, you know, that would be kind of the stick." What's the carrot [SP] in terms of, you know, increased yield or healthier plants?

Michael: Okay. So what you gotta know about Braingrid is that we're not one of those companies that says, "Up to X percent is coming out of us," for sure, you know up to. That's not a statement that we wanna make or we will make in the immediate sense. Of course, we're working towards it with Ample, our partner again, our own master cultivator that we've retained, and the growers we service right now to actually deliver even 1% yield results in an ROI that basically pays for our product for a number of years in fact. The biggest bump comes from not really yield but efficiency.

So what we can say right now is $10,000 in energy savings is the same thing as one kilogram of high-quality yield. Predictability and finance in a, you know, financial context of plus or minus 15% on your badges to plus or minus 1%, like, that's where we wanna go. We wanna be able to predict. Again, crop failure, if you, you know, yield a 0, well, that's minus 100%. You know, that's something we have to be very, very vigilant to and watch out for. So, you know, catching and heating it...like, here's a good example, catching, heating, and cooling at the same time, it's like thousands of dollars per day, thousands. That happens. Sometimes things go haywire, we can catch them. And let's not forget that if you pump too much CO2 in a room, you can kill people, you can literally kill people. It could be a liability issue. And that will shut down a business. Who cares about yield when your business cannot run?

Matthew: Right.

Michael: So these are really important things. And there's a huge list reducing touch time, manual watering is a good example, contamination risks from people entering and exiting. You just wanna eliminate all that. And my favorite is legitimizing and demonstrating best practices through traceability to the governments, to the regulatory bodies, to the people, the population that have still think this industry is taboo. I'm an engineer. I'm a data junkie. I feel it's a shame to demonize this industry with empirical results, you know, I really think bringing some science, some rigor, some stats will really reinforce the value of bringing medicine, good medicine, and good products to this population. I think it's fantastic stuff that what cannabis is doing.

Matthew: So when you look out in the horizon, what kind of trends do you see driving the grow room of the future three to five years out? What does it look like? How is it different? How has it evolved? We won't hold you to it, but where do you think it's going?

Michael: You can hold me do it. I haven't folded.

Matthew: I'm looking at calendar not right now, hold Michael. I'll tweet this out in three to five years. Was Michael right?

Michael: Do you know my wife? Yeah, she holds me to account on everything. So I think the easiest way to answer this question is look at the other industries where there's agriculture, where there isn't high value in the crop or at least not as high. You know, look at tomatoes, that's not even high value crop, it's like $70 and 50 cents a year or you know cannabis is $750 or I think that's that might even be old now. So what I think will happen is you'll see a few dominant LPs, federal conglomerate of probably acquired facilities and campuses that look kind of like these coops, these farms, these large-scale production facilities with very few people in them, lots of square feet, but very few people, all automated, all robotic. And the people really only exist to maintain the equipment not really there to cultivate the plants.

And you'll see all this data that we provide and other companies provide, for sure, being piped into their head office which isn't the facility, somewhere out there through, you know, supply chain metrics and ERP, and business intelligence, you know, as a commentary. And it'll just be bubbled up into one succinct clean message that is this business is good or this business needs something. That's the future to me. It's making machines do what people don't want to is another way of saying it. Our devices are there because it's a mundane task to collect data. It's a mundane task to analyze, it's a mundane...or owners task to report on it. So let computers do what they do best and enable the humans to understand, to gain knowledge to ensure their future through this intelligence. I hope that answered it. I think that's how it's gonna look.

Matthew: Well, tell us a little bit about where you are the capital raising process of the Braingrid.

Michael: So we completed an arm's length transaction in 2016 and for about a half-a-million dollars. But more recently, about $2.6 million was raised, again, with an arm's length transaction in February of 2018. It's been really great. And I don't know if you've heard, we made a public announcement where we're going to be doing a reverse takeover in September of this year. And we're presently in a raise for about $2 million to $3 million. And it's apparently going really well, subscription-wise. So we're very happy with this. The message behind all this money is to really enable us to pick our strategic partners very carefully, be able to merge or acquire, wherever necessary, and to exercise our ability to market our business within the states throughout the rest of this year and into next year because that's where there's so much demand for a product like ours to regulate, let's call it like it is, quite a fragmented market in the States.

Matthew: Yes. Yes, it is. That's a nice way of saying it. Now, if there's investors that are accredited that want to, you know, participate or invest with you, are you looking for accredited investors, or is that ship sailed, or what can you say?

Michael: Yeah, it's never too late. I think the subscription is pretty good right now, but accredited investors can speak with EMD in Montreal. It's run by fellows named Perry and John. And I can connect anybody who's interested. And EMD is not...They are exempt market dealers, but it's just a coincidence that their name is also EMD. Yeah.

Matthew: Okay. Well, Michael, I like to ask a few personal development questions to help listeners get a better sense of who you are. With that, is there a book that has had a big impact on your life or your way of thinking that you'd like to share?

Michael: Yeah, yeah. It's actually a short story by Isaac Asimov.

Matthew: Okay.

Michael: He's one of my favorite writers because he's such a dreamer. The name of the story is "The Last Question." It actually discusses how perhaps Google will look in a number of years. And the reason I love that story is so much is because at some point, if you zoom out far enough and you ask the right questions you understand enough, everything just gets really simple and the knowledge becomes your existence. It's a little mind-bending, but if you read the story, it's only maybe 15 or 20 pages. But it's so powerful as a storyline about what it is to discuss our existence in this universe. How and what entropy means to us? Whether the stars will run out, whether we'll run out of energy, because my personal passion is energy. I think that's one of the issues we face as a society now is how we fight, and pillage, and grab at all the resources we can when really we have more than enough abundance here for everybody. So the Asimov story really discusses how it's all very renewable and flat, and we can all play nicely in the sandbox. That makes any sense.

Matthew: Okay, "The Last Question" by Isaac Asimov, is that what it is?

Michael: Yeah, that's right.

Matthew: That's cool. Is there a tool web-based or, otherwise, you consider vital to the productivity of your company or yourself individually apart from the Sentroller?

Michael: Well, I assume you're talking about a technology tool.

Matthew: Sure, well, any kind of tool. I mean, it could be the wheel. Unicycle.

Michael: One of the tools that I really like using is something that helps me quiet my mind in such a noisy world. And I don't mean auditory, I mean there's just so much information coming at me. It's kind of the name of our business, right? So a meditation tool. It's a headband called a muse headset.

Matthew: I've seen pictures of this, but I never know anybody to use it. Tell us what it's about.

Michael: Well of course, being the data junkie I am, it measures a variety of signals coming from your head, frankly, alpha, gamma, beta, all these waves. Even knows if you're blinking or not, it's pretty crazy. And really, it's just a tool to help you practice mindful meditation, get really...not calm because there's nothing to achieve or attain when you're meditating, but just help you and coach you along. It gives you auditory feedback about what's happening right now in your head even though you may not be aware of it. So when your mind drifts off or you're kind of nervous or anxious, or thinking about anything, it helps remind you gently with auditory feedback in the form of a storm. You can actually hear storm or some sort of noise. And it helps you recenter, is a loose way of putting it. And it's cool because it's got a ton of data coming out of it. And it's also cool because it helps keep people sane and level. And that's great.

Matthew: And so since there's feedback loops in there, have you noticed yourself getting better? And how long did that take, if so?

Michael: It was immediate, but just like lifting weights, it takes time to get that mind muscle to keep the duration of your focus longer. It's not about whether you can or can't, it's how many recoveries, they call it. How can you recover to a quiet state? And how long can you keep it for? That's the game, if you will.

Matthew: I would think this would be a super popular stocking stuffer come the holidays. That's like, here, yeah, everybody will give this to their spouse, like, you could even be kinder gentler person if you just use this muse.

Michael: Yeah, yeah, yeah. I think it's a ways off yet because it seems almost too impossible that it's measuring your brainwaves, you know? But it really works.

Matthew: Well, Michael, as we close, can you tell listeners how to find your website and connect with you online? And if looking for accredited investors how they can connect with you as well?

Michael: For sure. Let's start with the website, braingrid.io. So that's brain, like the one on your head, grid, grid.oi. And anybody who's interested in speaking with me about investment opportunities, or integration opportunities, or partnerships, whatever. My name is michael@braingrid.oi.

Matthew: Well, Michael, thanks so much for coming on the show today and telling us about the connected grow room and painting a picture of what it looks like in the future. We really appreciate it. And good luck with everything you're doing with Braingrid.

Michael: Appreciate it, Matt. Really enjoyed being with you.