Ep 272 – The Last Barrier To Cannabis Beverages Has Fallen

william kleidon ojai energetics

Efficacy and rate of absorption are important variables when taking CBD, but the reality is most products on the market aren’t fast-acting and don’t have the best bioavailability.

That’s why William Kleidon set out on a mission to crack the code on a delivery method that could provide both instant relief and optimal absorption, and he did not disappoint.

With their patented immediate absorption technology, William and his team at Ojai Energetics are going where no company has gone before: water-soluble full-spectrum CBD.

The result? A highly absorbable, precisely targeted oil that’s disrupting the cannabinoid drink industry.

Learn more at https://www.cannainsider.com/ojai  

Key Takeaways:

  • Will’s background in CBD and how he came to start Ojai Energetics
  • An inside look at Ojai Energetics and its mission to offer the most targeted, bioavailable CBD on the market
  • A breakdown of water-soluble CBD versus traditional fat-soluble CBD
  • How Ojai Energetics achieved its rapid 30-second onset
  • The many challenges Ojai has overcome to create a water-soluble full-spectrum CBD oil 
  • How Ojai’s water-soluble technology has overcome dosage and consistency issues with CBD drinks
  • Ojai’s bitter-to-sweet dosing method and how it allows consumers to achieve their optimal dose through taste
  • Will’s thoughts on intellectual property in the cannabis space and his focus on licensing Ojai’s IP versus using it solely for the company’s own products
  • Where Ojai Energetics is currently at in the capital-raising process
  • Where Will sees Ojai heading in the next few years and how the company’s water-soluble technology will mark the beginning of new and improved CBD drinks
Read Full Transcript

Matthew: Hi. I'm Matthew Kind. Every Monday, look for a fresh new episode where I'll take you behind the scenes and interview the insiders that are shaping the rapidly evolving cannabis industry. Learn more at cannainsider.com. That's C-A-N-N-A insider.com. Now, here's your program. Just a quick note before we get started, I want to thank Will and the team at Ojai Energetics for offering a special deal on their CBD for CannaInsider listeners. When you go to cannainsider.com/ojai, you can see a special offer for a free $47 tube of sports gel when you purchase three or more bottles of their CBD oil. Again, go to cannainsider.com/ojai and you can see that offer. There's a little bit of a tricky spelling on Ojai, if you're not familiar with that, it's cannainsider.com/ojai. Now, here's your program.

When you take a CBD product, how fast do you want to feel the onset and how much you want to dial in the experience are really important variables. There are not a lot of options for quick onset and precision right now, but Will Kleidon from Ojai Energetics is here today to tell us about how he's surmounting those challenges and going where no CBD company has gone before. Will, welcome to CannaInsider.

Will: Thanks so much for having me.

Matthew: Give us a sense of geography. Where are you in the world today?

Will: I am in Ojai, California, which is about an hour and a half north of L.A. Yeah. [crosstalk [00:01:38] paradise.

Matthew: I know there's like a big hotel resort there, and it's supposed to be really nice, but I have never been there.

Will: Yeah. So, that's Ojai Valley Inn and it's awesome. Ojai, there's about, I think there's seven valleys on the planet that run east to west as opposed to north-south, and Ojai is one of them. And so it runs perpendicular to the coastal range. And so every evening when the sun sets the light refracts and then shoots up the valley and turns the entire valley pink. So it's called the pink moment. It's just a special spot, and it's 20 minutes to the ocean, you're surrounded by national forest, the condor sanctuary is right in my backyard and basically up in the mountains. And then Aldous Huxley and Krishna Merde they hung out here and lived here, it's just a cool spot.

Matthew: Yeah. That's great. So, tell us what is Ojai Energetics on a high level?

Will: Yeah. So, we are a cannabis technology company. And so we're an IP holding Co. at the parent level and I built it like a wheel and spoke model. And so we'll have our consumer packaged goods division which we have and are powered by OE which goes into power beverages or other products, and then our genetics division and all sorts of stuff, supercapacitors.

Matthew: We're gonna get into all that stuff, but I just wanted a high-level overview. Now, share a little bit about your background, how you got started down this path in the cannabis technology space.

Will: Yeah. So, in end of 2013, I was looking for a CBD product. I had met Ringo, one of the pioneers in breeding CBD a couple of years before, before he passed. And so I was familiar with CBD, but I thought I had to get it at a dispensary. And so I was googling CBD and all of a sudden it popped up on Amazon, then I went, "Oh wow. That's quite strange." And so I clicked on it, the ad and went to Amazon. It was fulfilled through Amazon, I believe, at the time and it showed up in my mailbox and I went, "Wow, this is incredible. I guess it's legal." And there was no CFA, had no idea what was in it, I think I saw there were synthetic fillers, did not feel good about wanting...didn't wanna take it. I had no idea what...and rightly so, it turns out that it was filled with heavy metal content, but did some due diligence and found how...like the legal pathways. It's just pre-2014 farm bill, so this would have been stock and stem of non-domestic hemp and thought there's gotta be someone doing it properly and searched and couldn't find anyone doing it with the integrity or standards that I felt good about taking personally. So, that was the impetus of, I said, "Well, if no one's doing it, I wanna take it. Let's do it."

Matthew: Yeah. And so one of the interesting characteristics of your CBD oil is how fast the onset is. Can you talk a little bit about that?

Will: Yeah. So, I met a chemist back in the beginning of 2014 and he said, "Hey, I figured out how to solubilize cannabinoids." I said, "Oh, that's awesome. Can we do it without synthetics because that's critical." And he goes, "No." And I said, "Okay, well let's figure that out. We need to crack that code." And we did. It took a little bit. And so we figured out how to encapsulate the cannabinoids using only certified organic plants, which is really important, when you go to solubilization, anything going down to nanoscale, the second that you add something that's synthetic or synthetically modified, you're creating something that's gonna be ranging from minimal but still notable kind of hepatic stressor, liver stressor toxicity, to like incredibly not good for the body over long-term use, such as like vast popping bubbles in the liver and the spleen and breaking down into formaldehyde and antifreeze at a cellular level. Really nasty stuff.

And so when you...the body naturally filters all that stuff out at macro scale. When you take it down nanoscale, you're sneaking it past, so, it was really important to figure out how to do this at that scale, and safely, and what's good for the environment. So we figured out how to do it with just certified organic plants and pressure. And instead of going to market right away, I went to build IP around it. And so this technology enables it to get in immediately upon contact with the mucosa membrane. And most users will feel and actually feel, most people have never felt CBD because the bioavailability is so poor. No one's actually taking a proper dose. I think what people are really feeling are the trace amounts of THC as well as placebo.

But anyways, you'll, like legitimately most legitimately feel it. And it can affect in multitude of different ways with under 30 seconds with this technology, which has changed the game. And that was...We were doing that since 2014. And that it also enables the, because of the onset time, there's actually multiple bell curves of efficacy like most bioactives tend to have a bell curve effect. So more can be less effective and so with less and there's actually more than one of them, multiple, and what we've discovered is this phenomena, because of our immediate onset and absorption where the flavor will actually modulate on the spot and you will trace out the bell curves and it will go from bitter when you're in a valley, so less effective, and it'll get sweeter and sweeter and sweeter till it's cloyingly sweet, almost too sweet at the peak, like honey, and then it'll go back down to bitter again and then back up to sweet. And because these bell curves are actually not static, they're changing on a daily basis, this enables you to pinpoint a perfect dose for your body every time. Whereas where like a fat-based formulation, or even a liposomal, or slower onset formulation, you're really actually shooting in the dark and you're playing a game of averages, so some days you're going to be in a valley and someday you're gonna be in a peak. And with certain situations, you really don't want to be missing efficaciousness in dosage.

Matthew: Yeah. That is very different compared to most CBD oil. So, just to kinda recap what you're saying there is that, as you take up amount that's not really helpful or is not doing much for you, it's bitter. And as you approach optimal, it gets sweeter and sweeter and then they're at the apex, it is sweetest. And so you're getting this feedback loop on your optimal dose.

Will: Yup. And if you keep going, it will start to get better again until it's a hundred percent bitter, and then back up the sweet, and then, so each sweet spot, like each peak, is just more fuel for the endocannabinoid system to continue running triage in the body. So the first sweet spot may, you know, have systems one, two, and three on the list. The second one would have one, two, three, four, five, six. If you started there...If you started with one, it would go to three, four, five, six, seven, eight, nine for the second bell curve, etc. So each sweet spot just means more systems the body can pull into balance at once.

Matthew: That is really unusual and cool. I mean, I wish I had a lot of, you know...good thing that like chocolate doesn't go that way because I wouldn't like after one or two bites, be like, "You're good, dude." I'd be like, "Ignore."

Will: And you know that chocolate has anandamide in it, right?

Matthew: It has what?

Will: Anandamide?

Matthew: No, tell me. Tell me what that is.

Will: Yeah. So, our internal can...Chocolate is a bizarre plant, but it actually contains this compound called anandamide, which is our body's endogenous THC. So, we produce anandamide and then another compound called 2-AG inside of our body. And those are endogenous cannabinoids. Now, likely we produce more, but those are the two that we know of so far. And so it's one of the only places in nature that contains, for plants, the only one I believe that we know of that has anandamide in it. And then the other form would be truffles. So, black truffles contain anandamide. So, it kind of could explain our love affair of truffles and chocolate as a species is because they're actually, they contain these compounds that we've actually really need in artificially created deficiency of since prohibition of the cannabis plant in the '40s, because it used to be the most ubiquitously grown vegetable on the planet by every culture for millennia. Minus the Inuit, I haven't found any evidence of pre-European contact Inuit hemp growing or cannabis growing.

But, other than that, and then pretty much every culture was growing it for millennia and then feeding it to the animals. In fact, the oldest recipe book that was printed is a Roman cookbook that contains a cannabis cooking recipe. But the predominant way, that'll be direct consumption, the predominant way of consuming that cannabinoids of high CBD, low THC, full spectrum would be feeding it to the animals and then eating the animals and their byproducts and decarboxylating them that way. And so Colorado did a prerun, there's a study that shows it has up to 1% CBD content per egg, which is substantial for hemp-fed chickens. And that's like 250 milligrams of CBD per egg.

And so our ancestors ate these regularly when the CBD boosts the anandamide levels in the body and creeps the circulation. So we've seen this kind of artificially-induced nutrient deficiency, this is my hypothesis. And, yeah, it's pretty fascinating. And that explains why like, all the data shows you really need 500 milligrams of CBD to minimumly engage the endocannabinoid system with...So, most people are getting nowhere near enough. And with our technique of encapsulation, the bioavailability skyrockets because it avoids the liver and gets into the bloodstream immediately. And so, when you take, so yeah, the anandamide in chocolate, the sources when you take it with CBD, it actually enhances the uptake and the half-life of the anandamide. So CBD and chocolate go very well together.

Matthew: So if your liver is kinda like Alcatraz, normally capturing like things and like checking it out. This is like an insect flying through Alcatraz, it can just go through past all the checkpoints, and security guards, and barbed wires.

Will: Straight in. And then once it's in and past the water layer, the water layer is like the barbed wire, the gatekeeper, the guards of Alcatraz. Once it's in, it can actually mobilize throughout the body very effectively as well. So, first step is getting it in, the second step is how well is it utilized once it's in.

Matthew: Okay. So is there any trade-offs on this method that you've discovered in this IP you've put together? Like, yes, it does this better, but because of that, it's not as good here. It's more difficult to create and manufacture, or anything like that?

Will: So, we can totally scale it. We're actually set up. We're in R&D with some of the biggest beverage companies on the planet because it's fully...you can put it in some water and it will homogenize perfectly, and it won't separate. We just got the patent issued backed by Wilson Sonsini for all fluidic encapsulation and cannabinoid. So, beyond doing it the organic method, which we will only ever do due to safety, but we will help the marketplace because there are people doing it with methods that are using like nano-petroleum which is not okay. But will help stand point for regular use.

But no, we can do 30,000 gallons a day right now, and that's nowhere near capacity. So, yet to discover...Basically what it is is it's doing the same exact, our technique does it at the same exact encapsulation size that the body does naturally. So when you eat a regular fat-based formulation, or actually any fat, it's gonna sit in the gut and it can't get past the water layer, right? Which is like the gatekeeper. But once the liver comes in and then it will stimulate bile secretion through gallbladder, but it's generated in the liver, it will actually nanoencapsulate, the bile does, and creates a nanoemulsion at 40 nanometers inside the body, inside the gut. And then it can start, once it's water compatible, it makes it past the water layer, it gets absorbed in. So, we're actually utilizing the same technique as nature, just doing it outside of the body with certified organic plants. And so we're getting it in as if like immediately bypass. The body's just not efficient at doing that, so 90% of what is there. So if you ate 20 milligrams of fat-based CBD, 90% of that gets destroyed while it's waiting in the gut, some through the first pass of the enzymes and the liver bile, but also through like the acid of the stomach, etc. And so we're just much more efficient at it. But that's why it's so effective. It's utilizing the same tech essentially, it's an organic tech.

Matthew: So, the CBD drink market really hasn't taken off in a big way yet. Do you think this type...Is this what we've been waiting for in terms of...because everybody knows when they drink a Budweiser or a glass of Merlot. Yeah. Unless you're in like first time, your first time drinking, you can kind of say like, "Oh, this is how I can expect to feel after one Budweiser." And there's no, there's no way you can really do that with so much different things going on with cannabis and CBD. But you could do it, you can get close, but you just can't really dial it in precisely. So, yes. Is this what we're waiting for in terms of drinks then? Like...

Will: Yeah. I'd say there's a two fold. One is like...so, for example Suja, which is pretty substantial beverage company. I don't know if you're familiar, they do organic juices. And so they came to us and started with us and went to R&D and they went out trying to find a cheaper option and came back and they said, "That was the most hellacious customer journey we've ever been on. Talked to 50 suppliers. You're the only one that actually works and knows what they're talking about. And we don't want to violate any art or patents. So, we're happy to pay it forward and put on our letterhead our customer journey on how Ojai is the only way to go when it comes to beverage." So, that was nice.

And yeah, there's definitely an issue of people jumping in and getting like, seeing the green rush and a lot of it is like resupply, but they have no idea what they're doing. They're not going to be stable. Like, they'll separate out, or they're going to be violating our art. And so like, from a technical support side, people don't get...they're not...They're just trying to make a buck as opposed to really caring about the consumer, and the space, and the environment. And so, I think that's been a point that's kinda held things back. And then also it's the trepidatiousness of big box to roll out distribution, which they're ready to do. It's really the FDA, it's the big box side. The companies are waiting, the big players, to distribute, but they don't want to do like checkerboard distribution. And so, with the FDA opinion clarifying, because really the entire clause that they reference on the 201ff3bii, that their opinion is based on, the only IMD, or investigational new drug trial that took place that they reference is for an isolate. It's an isolate CBD product, and thus it's a different article from a full-spectrum or broad-spectrum hemp extract. And so that's gonna be clarified, and then we're going to see some of the biggest beverage companies on the planet rollout skews. And we're in R&D with them.

Matthew: Yeah. So, let's talk a little bit about intellectual property or IP. And, you know, most of the cannabis companies I speak with are more product-oriented first and then they, the idea of IP pops in their head, but it's always kind of a caboose. It's not the locomotive. And you seem to have a different orientation around the IP. Can you tell me how you think about IP and your kind of strategy with it?

Will: Yeah. So, in IP, one thing is, like, if you put a product to market, it is now considered prior art against yourself. Meaning, if you out live and you sell it and then you try and patent it, your selling it counts as against yourself and it says, "No. Not new. You already did it." So, IP law is not necessarily logical. But it is driven via logic if that makes sense. So, that's one part of the strategy is not playing checkers and then playing chess. And our ultimate goal is to be a steward of the plant and for the planet. And that's what we do and will continue to. And then at the right time open source. So, our IP attorneys are ranked number one globally for biotech as well as just general IP enforcement and development. They represent Salesforce and worked with Apple and all the Silicon Valley early players as well as Pfizer and the big guys. And so working with them since 2014, the focus was, I basically I channeled my entrepreneurial kind of excitement into developing IP. And so now our portfolio ranges from like the encapsulation techniques of cannabinoids and so like, it's not just applicable to CBD, it's for all cannabinoids. And we're not gonna roll it out until it's federally legal. But with the...I can tell you that 0.3 milligrams of THC gets you completely off the ground in 30 seconds.

Matthew: It's just the delivery, the delivery [inaudible [00:22:48].

Will: Consistently at top. Yeah. It's basically but it bypasses. It's not like an edible where, you know, like it becomes Δ-11, it just is all Δ-9. So we are gonna have like beverages where you know exactly what your dosage is and the user can feel it in 30 seconds and it's just like they had a dab or a vape, but it's through a consumable [crosstalk 00:23:07], but yes, that's pretty...

Matthew: So, that would change really cultivation quite a bit too then.

Will: Yeah. You can use a hundredth of it.

Matthew: Oh my God. I just heard a thousand cultivators sigh out loud.

Will: I think we're nowhere near like capacity. I mean, like, we're talking about an incredibly bottle-necked market. And once full legalization takes globally, I don't think...I do believe cultivation, unfortunately, just like any industry, it will go down to commodity. I don't believe it's gonna...that, I liken it to cannabis to grapes and in fact TOR and growing style impacts the epigenetic expression and the terpene profile even more so than grapes. I think we'll probably piss more inventors off. They work very well together. And that's, I think it has a whole new scope of market. But there's always gonna be two buck chuck, but the craft boutique delicious micro cultivars are never gonna go away. I think that the...particularly in this industry, people do not want to have just a generic product. There's gonna be these craft micro growers and I think that's here to stay. Anyways. So yeah. Do you wanna keep going on the IP?

Matthew: Yeah, I mean this is powerful stuff with the IP. I think there's so many applications. Is there any applications you see coming down the road for cannabis technology that's maybe not on people's radar, but it's around the corner in the next three to five years that's gonna make a big impact?

Will: Yeah. Yes. So, we figured out the antidote to THC intoxication.

Matthew: Oh. Wow. What's that?

Will: So, we can get the user through our prelim completely sober in under five minutes, and we believe with nasal it should be 30 seconds. And we got the patent issued, and it's a pregnenolone, which is a neurosteroid derived from yams in conjunction with all cannabinoids. So, actually the patent issued is not limited to use as antidote and there's going to be a lot of uses on biotech as well. And effectively it basically, the CBD shuts down agonization, these one receptors that THC is agonizing on the serotonin front, and then the pregnenolone blocks the CB1. And both are selective and they're completely safe. In fact, the humans, we have a built-in safety mechanism where people can actually smoke themselves sober. It takes a lot, but it's possible. And what happens is when there's too much agonization of THC on CB1, the brain floods itself with pregnenolone. Unfortunately, the people who have eaten one too many cookies, they have not eaten close to as many cookies as they need you to get that response to kick in. But it's our built-in mechanism to prevent toxicity. It's one of the likely reasons why we don't have any...there's not a real toxicity with the plant where it's totally safe. It just they just think they're dead. They're actually totally safe.

Matthew: They wish they die sometimes.

Will: So, anyways, that's the matter. We can get it in and tested it on L.A. Cannabis enforcement officials.

Matthew: I'm just waiting for the day when I can take something that has like a 30 second onset or three-minute onset for motion sick, because I fly all the time, but I get motion sick every time I do.

Will: All right. Have you taken our elixir.

Matthew: I haven't. I have some. I'm gonna try it here. And someone on the team has tried it and they gave good thumbs up, but I haven't tried it. And I wanna try that. But then I'm thinking, in the future it'd be nice to be like almost not...Like almost like a twilight sleep for flying and then maybe take one of these nasal sprays or something and have it flush out.

Will: Pop out.

Matthew: Yeah. Pop out. That would be like just, "Oh, we're landing." Like, "Pshh." Right after landing.

Will: There's this book, this is Steven who's one of our advisors and one of my friends, he just wrote this book called...he wrote the book, "Abundance" with Peter, and "Bold," and "Stealing Fire," which is all about...and "Rise of Superman," which is like flow and human performance. He just wrote this, in my opinion a masterpiece. It's just brilliant. This book called "Last Tango in Cyberspace." And it's a superhero. It's like a cyberpunk future kind of Philip K. Dick-esque. But all of the tech in there is like actual stuff he knows. He knows the people who are making all this tech and it's crazy how close to the...We are really in the future, right? But anyways, this superhero, his power is like hyper-empathy and it's activated by smoking cannabis. And one of the pieces in the buck is Jamaica Airlines where there's no kids allowed and it's all cannabis-friendly.

Matthew: Wow. Like Jamaica itself.

Will: Anyways, that's what I imagine when you talk about you can go up and have the...Essentially, yeah, we have altitude control with our tech where you can go immediately up and you can come down immediately as well.

Matthew: Yeah. That's very attractive to be able to dial that in for specific use cases like we're talking about right here. That would be super valuable.

Will: Yeah. And then...Go ahead

Matthew: And then let's talk a little bit about your plans for THC products. Like, we've talked about CBD quite a bit. I mean, this is all cannabinoid science, but what about THC?

Will: Yeah. So, as soon as it's federally legal or the States Act emerges around the corner, we will open up the tech. Like I said, I've done a, not in our lab, but just a bench experienced where 0.3 milligrams works in 30 seconds and we can scale that. And so, essentially, like you were talking about, I see it going to metered dosages where you know that a beer is going to affect like this, right? And so that's going to be the future I think of consumption. Also what's unique with our tech is that...So, terpenes direct cannabinoids to particular payload sites in the body, and so you really notice this with the people vaporizing or smoking is that, you know, indica tends to be sedative, whereas sativa tends to be uplifting, and cerebral, and energizing.

And the difference between those two strains is not really the minor cannabinoids at all, nor the THC content or CBD content, it's actually the terpene variance. And so I talked to Michelle Saxton, is probably one of the leading researchers on this, but I called her up in 2015 and I had this, I was walking and I had this insight of, I saw that the terpenes as being like little tugboats to the cannabinoids and directing them where they go in the body to the different CB receptors. And I called her and she had, at that point that, and that that's what she was finding in her studies. And so what we discovered, because of the immediate onset, you can actually custom curate moods and affect, on the spot just using terpenes, whether they're from cannabis or not, and viscerally different effects. So, you can feel sedative and then you can take the CBD or the THC and then it would, you smell a menthol or peppermint in a beverage, and it would hit like uplifting and it shifts gears. So, it can be customized mood as well as on the medical front in biotech, you can do custom payload delivery sites. So, I think that's going to be just...being able to drink your mood effect on the spot and then shift it up, I think that's gonna be a major trend in the future.

Matthew: Interesting.

Will: Yeah. It's pretty cool. And because terpenes are not bioavailable, they're even less absorbed via ingestion. So, like a cookie is a cookie, right? Like, you can market that it's like an indica cookie or a sativa cookie, but you're not getting the terpenes. They're even less bioavailable than the cannabinoids, really not getting in or absorbed through ingestion. And the real way that they actually bioactively respond in the body is actually through olfactory and crossing blood-brain at the hypothalamus and then deploying out. And so you need that inhalation technique. So, if you drink it, you're actually pulling it up through the mouth cavity and then through olfactory, and then because of the immediate absorption with our tech, the timing syncs up and you can play that way.

Matthew: This is amazing stuff. It's crazy to think how fast this is evolving. It just, like you said, that book, Peter Diamandis, that kind of futurist you're talking about, and his books and stuff, it's very...it kind of I think about this. And also, you and I were talking before the call about your supercapacitor made out of hemp. Can you talk a little bit about that? Your idea?

Will: Yeah. Yeah. So, back in 2014 at BBC, the BBC ran an article about making supercapacitor graphene equivalent, actually outperforming graphene out of hemp. I was like, "Of course, this plant is crazy. What doesn't it do?" And so these Canadians had figured it out. But then...So I was waiting. I thought, this is gonna change the entire face of the planet, right? The implications are just absolutely massive, and nothing happened. And so I did some due diligence and looked in and went to our RP group and brought in a PhD from Stanford in Molecular Battery Engineering to look at it, and I said, "What's going on? Is there a scale issue?" And he goes, "100%." Looked at their art, and he's like, "You can't scale that." And so we figured out how to actually scale it and bring it to at scale to production. And Lawrence Livermore Berkeley Labs, the National Labs looked at it and they went, "Oh my goodness, this is going to work." So we're in Creda. And so once we really pull the trigger, they believe they can get it in about eight months to commercial scale for stage one. And so our IP also holds it on utility front. So, for rockets, and cars, and cell phones, and city grids, and jets, and all sorts of cool stuff.

Matthew: Talk about how that might transform, like the aviation industry.

Will: Yeah. So, the reason we don't have electric jets is because the battery, or it's like big jets, right? They have like a solar-powered little plane that's fairly new, right? But I was actually at a bar in Texas and I was just thinking like, "Why don't we have electric planes?" And I looked around and everyone had these name tags on. And so I said, "Okay, so what..." I asked the guy next to me and said, "What convention is this?" And he said, "Oh, it's in aerospace." I said, "Oh, that's cool." I was like, "What do you do?" He goes, "Well, I design and build jets." And I was saying, "Awesome. Wait. Can I ask you a question? Why don't we have electric jets?" And he said, "Well, the batteries would be too heavy." And I said, "Okay. So, in theory, if we 3D printed graphene supercapacitors into the fuselage of the plane, could you have an effective electric jet?" And he goes, "100%." And I said, "The reason why we don't is because the, like the graphene's too expensive?" And he goes, "Yep, 100%." I said, "Okay, thank you." And so that's in our IP portfolio.

So, in theory, we will have electric jets with it. I mean, we can 3D print using hemp plastics for the components, which some, I think, airlines are beginning to use. I know Audi is doing hemp PLAs and Henry Ford made his Model T out of a hemp plant. So, I'm an optimist. I think the future is incredibly bright. I think this plant has catalyzed us through kind of each epoch, and provided a technological advancement to expand and simultaneously provided the micronutrients to buffer the oxidative stress that comes with that. And we artificially pulled it in the '40s, but I think it's gonna enable us to have appropriate technologies and simultaneously leading to a cultural kind of shift and integrate the indigenous wisdom and all sorts of things that we get to grow as a ecological species, right? We are functions of nature. Yeah. And I really do see that we've got the tech and that's why the mission of the company is to be a part of that catalyzing of ultimately the dream and which we'll do is when the time is right open source where you can 3D print your battery for your house or your car for free from the cloud out of the hemp that's grown locally. And that's our mission vision piece.

Matthew: And where are you in the capital-raising process?

Will: So, we've done series A, I've got a great, incredible new team and an existing team are all superheroes. And I've got the Tom Hicks who is president of Naked Juice and then also Ryan Hansen's the non-energy division inside of Monster. So, he was president of Naked Juice, sold to Pepsi, brought it Pepsi. And Hansen's brought that to Coke. He's now our chief commercialization officer, our chief growth, and then our new CFO, Allan George was with North Castle private equity with Naked Juice. And then was with Hansen's to Coke. And then TPG tapped him to take elf Cosmetics public, which he did. And now he's in-house and they've worked together for 20 years. They're just absolute rockstar industry experts.

And so we're putting together a...And then also my friend Tim Brown, who is CEO of Nestle North America Waters, he's partnered with us to help accelerate. And so we've really got the all-star crew for CPG and we're doing a 15-mil bridge and we've created really cool instruments. It's really friendly for all parties. And that's going to be the last entry point into parent Co. And I'm doing it because I don't wanna dilute CPG. We've been running that brand on stealth mode and it's just exploded through word of mouth because it actually works. And that's the Ojai Energetics brand. And so we get all the time, people are like, "Oh my God, I didn't think CBD worked. This is what CBD feels like?" Due to the bioavailability. And so yeah, there's that. And then we're gonna just sprint out, build up those out, and it's a lot of fun.

Matthew: Are you still looking for accredited investors for the capital raising process or...?

Will: Yeah. We are open. Yes. We've got a syndicate. So, 100%, we're in that process and it's moving along, but we are interested.

Matthew: Okay. And I'll ask you how accredited investors can contact you when we close. But before we do that, let's have a few personal development questions where listeners can, you know, get a sense of who you are personally. We talked about abundance and Peter Diamandis' book "Abundance" and he has a few other books. Is there any book that's had a big impact on your life or your way of thinking either personally or as an entrepreneur that you'd like to share?

Will: Yeah. Buckminster Fuller's "Operating Manual for Spaceship Earth." It's incredibly dense, but it's amazing. I struggle with it, but he's one of my heroes. He's a systems thinker, but extensively talking about how it's a systems design issue on the planet, it's not so much a resource issue at all. And one of his quotes is like, "When we divest from weaponry and invest in livingry, we'll have a completely different planet that's enjoyable." He's brilliant. So yeah, that one, for sure, is probably one of my favorites.

Will: Yeah. And, you know, I see... So like, I liken us to, we're just parts of nature, right? We're weird. And then "Behave" is a book I'm reading right now by Sapolsky, and it's incredible too. It's like...do you wanna... That is the guide of why humans are so weird, and we do what we do from a behavioral perspective of like, we can be incredibly kind and incredibly awful with the wind. And it's explaining the neuroscience behind it.

But the metaphor I like is like a caterpillar. And if you look at a caterpillar in terms of how it behaves in the ecology, it's actually a parasite. It will just consume, and consume, and consume, and consume, and amass all this energy, and it will actually, can nearly take it down the keystone species of the ecosystem, meaning it will collapse the entire ecosystem. But this is just its nature, right? And then before it does that, it will, before it collapses the ecology it will break down into...go into a cocoon and then the chrysalis and it turns into a mush, but it maintains the old operating system or immune system of the caterpillar. But these new cells begin to emerge called Imaginal cells, and they're carrying the DNA of its future self, which is the butterfly, but initially the old operating system, and we can liken this to paradigm on the planet of human operating system. Sees it as a threat, and so it kills it off. But then they're persistent, and then thankfully, as part of our natural mechanism is that the tipping point happens around 14% and carries through nature on average. And you don't need a 50% shift, otherwise we would never get anywhere. But the 14%, around 14% of regeneration of these Imaginal cells, all of a sudden the immune system of the caterpillar goes, "Hold on. That's actually a future version of myself. And I need to help it continue for me to survive." And so it actually enable...it switches from killing it to creating this protection buffer and enables it to recode it into these new cells. And they're still raw pockets. But at that point, it's exponential. And it fully recodes into this butterfly and it has to like break through and gain its wing strength by pushing, and it's uncomfortable, but it breaks through the chrysalis. And all of a sudden it's this...Now it's a pollinator, and in fact it's actually building multiple ecosystems.

And it goes from nearly collapsing one, but it needed to amass all of that energy to goes through such a massive transformation to then be able to actually protect and build multitudes of the ecosystems. And I see us as, and actually mycorrhizal fungi has a similar process. It starts a parasitic with a plant and then becomes a symbiotic life force. And I believe that we are...we've hit that critical mass. We're the Imaginal cells, we're recoding the model, it's happening everywhere. And we're moving into a symbiotic stage of organism where we can work in harmony. And so, not to judge where we're coming from, it's just is where we come from as part of the natural cycles and processes to then emerge. I believe that the Internet, which was brought about by the DoD, right? Has now led people to see that actually, hold on. There's more than enough resources all over, we're actually, we're all family and, you know, everyone just wants to eat and skateboard or whatever. It's bringing us closer and obviously there's oscillations and breaths, but there's ups and downs, right? But ultimately we're living on less war-based planet than ever before. That standard of living is getting higher everywhere overall. And I do believe that we're emerging as these symbiotic potential beings to like really build an incredible model. And we're on our way.

Matthew: That's awesome dude. Great explanation of the Imaginal cells. I had not heard that a description before. Well done.

Will: It built on from Barbara Marx Hubbard who has passed. I wish I met her, but, yeah.

Matthew: And, here's a Peter Thiel question for you. What is one thought you have that most people would disagree with you on? It can be about anything, not necessarily about the cannabis industry.

Will: Initially, I think, saying that we're going through a, we're actually, the litmus test of America is we're actually on an upswing despite the appearances. I liken it to like a herxheimer response, which is a term, it started from Lyme's disease. But, when you start detoxing and you start getting healthier and you move in a healthy direction, let's say you do a juice fast, or you just start taking steps to get healthier, the toxins that are stored deep within start coming and mobilizing and going to the surface. And you feel like shit, pardon my French. You get sicker. You seem like you're getting sicker, but in fact, you're actually getting healthier. And it's much easier...you have to be vigilant in this process in the herxheimer because you gotta pay attention because you can get actually harmed from these that are mobilizing and coming out.

But it's counterintuitive. You're actually not getting sicker, you're getting healthier, but you feel like you're getting sicker. And I believe that we're witnessing this another shift of where we had this ear to the collective unconscious, all of these, the things that we're now experiencing of racism and all sorts of the creepy crawlies of the human condition are coming out to the surface where everyone's talking about it. And it's a paradoxical theory of change where you cannot change something you don't accept exists. And I believe that it's much...we're actually on an overall health trend, becoming more aware, more engaged, more awake, more compassionate, and we're just seeing these things that were there. They were just hidden and now they're getting illuminated. And if we're more sensitive to it, so it feels like it's getting worse. But in reality, it's part of the necessary process to jump and grow to the next level. And it doesn't mean to go, to not be vigilant and not pay attention. In fact, the opposite. But it...Yeah.

Matthew: That's really...You know, I know what you're talking about there because I've done a seven-day juice cleanse. I've done many, but the longest one I did was seven days where I could only drink juice. And what you're talking about is what I called a toxic crisis.

Will: Yeah. Day three, right?

Matthew: Yeah. Day three. Your tongue turns into this huge swollen white thing, and you feel like crap, and then like some point you start getting very zen and you're like, "I'm not..." And you actually crave the foods that are coming out. Like, "I had a cheeseburger a month ago and I feel like I'm craving that." And it's so weird how that works. And you go through and have this almost quasi-psychedelic zen thing that happens and are like, "Oh, I can see..." Like, "I can't..." Like, "I'm so glad I made it through that and..." But it's good to know that's on the other side because it just it really gets acute there for a while. So, well said. Now, as we close, Will, let listeners know, if they're accredited investors, how to connect with you and then for everybody that's interested in your products, how they can find them.

Will: Yeah. Great. So, ojaienergetics.com for our products. And then for accredited investors, if they reach out to info@ojai, O-J-A-I, energetics, E-N-E-R-G-E-T-I-C-S .com, someone will reach out.

Matthew: Great. Well, Will, you've got so much going on here. We're gonna have to catch up at some point in the future and find out how all that's going. Good luck with everything and keep us updated.

Will: Thanks so much.

Matthew: If you enjoyed the show today, please consider leaving us a review on iTunes, Stitcher, or whatever app you might be using to listen to the show. Every five-star review helps us to bring the best guest to you. Learn more at cannainsider.com/iTunes. What are the five disruptive trends that will impact the cannabis industry in the next five years? Find out with your free report at cannainsider.com/trends. Have a suggestion for an awesome guest on CannaInsider? Simply send us an email at feedback@cannainsider.com. We'd love to hear from you. Please do not take any information from CannaInsider or its guests as medical advice. Contact your licensed physician before taking cannabis or using it for medical treatments.

Promotional consideration may be provided by select guests, advertisers, or companies featured in CannaInsider. Lastly, the host or guests on CannaInsider may or may not invest in the companies, entrepreneurs profiled on the show. Please consult your licensed financial advisor before making any investment decisions. Final disclosure to see if you're still paying attention. This little whistle jingle you're listening to will get stuck in your head for the rest of the day. Thanks for listening, and look for another CannaInsider episode soon. Take care. Bye-bye.