Most Recent Interviews
Neal McQueeney is co-owner and operator of Midway Dispensary in Chicago. Listen in as he describes what is like to operate in a market where politicians throw a lot of obstacles in his path. Discover how he adapts and overcomes to build his business.
[1:18] – Neal’s background
[2:14] – Illinois cannabis laws
[5:59] – Neal talks about the products at Midway Dispensary
[6:50] – Pitching new products to a dispensary owner
[7:59] – Neal talks about the patient flow
[10:09] – Is the fingerprinting requirement scaring patients off
[12:08] – How much product can a patient purchase at one time
[13:26] – IL Patient purchasing restrictions
[16:07] – Neal talks about the reality of running a dispensary
[18:21] – Neal talks about marketing his dispensary
[25:22] – Neal talks about what he would do differently
[28:11] – Neal answers some personal development questions.
Learn more at:
What are the five trends that will disrupt the cannabis in the next five years?
Find out with your free cheatsheet at http://www.cannainsider.com/trends
Cassandra Farrington is the CEO of Marijuana Business Daily. It’s no exaggeration that everybody in the industry will be at this conference. Listen in to hear what you’ll learn, who you will rub shoulders with and how this conference can help your business grow.
Get $50 off your registration at:
use coupon code cannainsider50
in the next days and get an additional $50 of your ticket
[1:22] – What is Marijuana Business Daily
[2:04] – Cassandra’s background
[5:20] – How has the Marijuana Business Conference grown
[9:24] – Cassandra reveals the keynote for this year
[11:42] – Cassandra talks about irrational exuberant areas in the space
[15:44] – Getting the most out of the Marijuana Business Conference
18.24 – Strategies for exhibitors
[20:30] – Cassandra talks about designing booths
[22:05] – Taking the conference’s crash course
[24:25] – Cassandra asks some personal development questions
Are you looking to understand the cannabis business more, network and socialize with other cannabis business professionals and grow your business, the you’ll want to know about the largest cannabis business conference coming up in Las Vegas this November. Here to tell us about it is Cassandra Farrington, CEO of Marijuana Business Daily. Cassandra, welcome to CannaInsider.
Cassandra: Thank you so much Matt. I’m really glad to be here.
Matthew: Give us a sense of geography, where are you in the world today?
Cassandra: I am luckily at my home base, in my office in the Denver area. I have been on the road non-stop it feels like for about six weeks, and I’m glad to be kind of anchoring down for a few weeks before the big show hits in November.
Matthew: Yes, it is, it’s a very consistently nice weather. I really like it. What is Marijuana Business Daily? I think almost everybody in the industry probably gets your emails at this point, but for the people that are new that don’t, just tell us what Marijuana Business Daily is.
Cassandra: Sure, so Marijuana Business Daily is effectively the Wall Street Journal resource for and about the cannabis industry. It is a completely business focused and B2B tool that the industry has relied on for many years to just understand the development, the opportunities, the risks, the threats, the regulations, the changing business landscape as the cannabis industry has developed over the last several years.
Matthew: Yeah the threats, it seems like there’s more threats than anything these day, so I’m glad you cover those. What is your background? How did you get into this business, and maybe you could talk a little bit about Ann Holland, to give people a sense of context.
Cassandra: Absolutely. My business partner, Ann and I, are business to business media veterans. We both worked together at a newsletter publisher back in the day completely on the business to business side. So, it was an industry where, back in the day again, paper newsletters that you may have a 1,000 subscribers for your newsletter product, but you charge a $1,000 a year, it would be a very high end, really targeted publication to a very niche audience and you had a nice little business model there. You string three or four of those things together in the airline industry. Had different niches within that and roll it up under a common sales team or common publisher and you’d have a great business model.
That is what we set out to do, not in cannabis, but just in business overall and to translate that to the web. As we were looking for new things to launch into back in 2011, we noted here in Denver the emerging dispensary market specifically. Thought, well there’s a group of people who had a growing industry, who are figuring this out day-by-day. We can put together business resources for that group of people and help them do their jobs better and help them grow their businesses quicker. So, we set out to do that and everything else has followed from that method of idea.
Matthew: I actually followed your business partner Ann when she ran, I think, What Runs Where or Which Test One.
Cassandra: Which Test One. Exactly. Which Test One was one Ann Holland Ventures, so mine and Ann’s, one of our other launches that we had before we came into the cannabis space, and that was all about A/B testing in marketing circumstances. We had another one that was all about how to harness subscription website more effectively. So, think about pay walls or fan club websites, this transition to paid news on the web, those sorts of things. That was another industry we covered. Like I said, the cannabis space was our third. Let’s see what’s happening over there.
As this has grown, we’ve actually divested both Which Test One and Subscription Insider. They’re both off to better homes now. We unfortunately just couldn’t keep up and give those products and business lines the attention and love they deserved to be able to flourish themselves, while we were also doing this, because the cannabis space, as you know Matt, has just continued to explode.
Matthew: It has. Gosh, I was at your last conference and I just was shocked how big it had become. I had gone in 2014 in Las Vegas at the Rio, and it was a nice size then, but this last year in Vegas it was like a Guns and Roses concert. There were so many people. Not the same motif as a Guns and Roses concert, but the size of it. It was unbelievable, the floor and the exhibition, and we’ll get into that in a minute. Maybe you can tell us how large the conference was and how it’s progressed in the size to where it is now.
Cassandra: Our last event we had to stop allowing people to register when we hit 11,000 people, just right above that number. That was due to fire code at the Rio where the event was held last year. As you said, you were there, it was just wall to wall. We were getting to a point where people were just not comfortable in the space, and of course we want to make sure the people who are there harbor the experience. So, we did decide to limit registrations at that point. We’re moving this year to the Las Vegas convention center. So, not concerned about being able to let everybody who wants to participate come in the door and check out the show floor.
The show floor is also going to be significantly larger than it was last year. You mentioned, last year it was expansive and we had it in two different halls at the venue where we were at last year. We’re all under one roof this year, but we’re taking over the north halls of the convention center. There’s going to be 650+ exhibitors on the show floor with everything from grow lights to HVAC systems, to greenhouse construction. On the retail side from tracking systems to retail displays and design services on the extraction side. Infused products, everything from packaging to extraction machines and testing equipment. It’s going to be the full ecosystem of everything that goes into creating an end user product with cannabis material. Everything is going to be right there on that show floor.
Matthew: How would you say the conference is unique? One thing I’ve noticed is you execute very well. You have all the details taken care of. I know there is a ton, and good job on that. One thing I notice is the conference space and I think in general business kind of moving to this winner take all approach. I don’t know what the reason is, but there’s only one Facebook. You’ve really captured the business to business conference market, and everything seems to be moving to this unipolar world where winner takes all. Do you feel like that’s happening? What’s your sense there?
Cassandra: I think it’s natural within business, in any business landscape that there’s going to be a dominant player, and there’s no question that MJ Biz Con has become the dominant player. I think that we have earned that position simply through having really terrific, unbiased and well curing content. Having a great expo, as you said, with all the details taken care of, it runs smoothly. It’s a good experience for the people who are there. With trade show in particular, whether it’s an expo only type event or whether it’s a conference type of event, there’s absolutely a sense of critical mass that plays into that.
We live in such a virtual world today that at some point people do need to get together, if they’re going to be traveling to an event, if they’re going to be making that investing in being on-site somewhere, they want to be at that place where they know the most people are going to be who are going to be able to help them advance their own business activities to find the right partners, to scope out the right vendor for the next part of their business expansion. Whatever that is, they want to go to where the critical of people and businesses and opportunities are going to be. That simply has become into Biz Com.
Matthew: Who was the keynote speaker last year, and who is it going to be this year? I’m trying to remember. It wasn’t Ben and Jerry. That was 2014.
Cassandra: That was 2014. This year we’re having George Blankenship is going to be our keynote speaker. He is a business innovator. He has worked with Tesla, and with Apple and with many other forward thinking companies over the last many years, and is going to bring his insights into business innovation and industry innovation to the show floor here, to the show in Las Vegas. I’m very much looking forward to hearing how somebody who has been on the forefront on so many business advancements that have fundamentally changed the way our society operates.
When you think about Apple and the ways they have impacted not just computers, but how that has really flowed through our entire society and changed the way that we approach the world. I think that cannabis can be and is becoming a similar game changing and innovation industry. I think his intents are going to be very valuable. We’re also having, as a keynote this year, Jean Sullivan who is a noted investor in this space and was a noted Dot Com investor as well, and she’ll be talking about her experiences during the Dot Com boom and some of the parallels she’s seeing as the cannabis develops and some of the irrational exuberant that we’re starting to see here in the cannabis market. She has some words of wisdom and [10.57 unclear] and values for attendees, as people move forward in those landscapes.
Last year we had Penn Jillette, from the comedy duo Penn and Teller. Penn is a noted libertarian and free thinker himself. His comments were very much appreciated in terms of how people like him are influencing the conversation of cannabis in the general society. Not just in the United States, but globally as we see things change.
Matthew: You mentioned irrational exuberance there. There are areas that seem a little bit frothy. What areas are those to you in your mind?
Cassandra: The places where I see the most exuberance, absolutely the places where there are the most opportunities. So, I think California, as that market comes out, it’s obviously going to be huge. I think it’s going to take a little while to sort itself out. Right now there’s a lot of investment that’s just going into that space to try to seize opportunity, but I don’t know that there is very much risk mitigation going on right now. Now, I get that that’s difficult to do because we still don’t even have emergency legislation out that’s going to control things come January 1st, so how do you mitigate risk when you don’t know the landscape you’re going to be playing on. That’s absolutely a difficult question, but there’s definitely going to be some people who end up with the short straw in that market.
Canada, something of a similar situation. The amount of investment that’s pouring in up there is both heartening because it is a precursor of what could be possible if the United States legalized thoroughly and got their act together. The Canada marketplace is going to be a much more stable with full federal regulation, full federal legalization, which means you’ll be able to do banking and commerce and taxing and regulation across the entire federal landscape. That’s a great foundation on which to build a business that we simply don’t have here in the United States, but the amount of money that’s going into that market right now does not, I think, match the size of the Canadian market.
So, where I think where people are looking, and I think this is an interesting angle of the Canadian marketplace, is Canada is quickly becoming an international hub for cannabis commerce. So, the Canada issue is not just about Canada, but it’s about Germany, and it’s about Australia and the Caribbean and other import/export markets and transborder, crossing the border with an IP that’s being developed up in Canada, things like that. So, there’s a lot going on and a lot of opportunities out there. Just always make sure you know what you’re doing when you’re up to foreign money.
Matthew: Yeah, I definitely am concerned about the cost of cannabis just going down quite a bit in California, once that engine really starts running and people that are running into that now, it’s like the top 1 percent of the people into automation and agriculture on a large scale that put in a ton of upfront investment are really going to be able to do things at scale that the small and medium guys just won’t be able to do. So, that’s one thing I worry about.
Cassandra: It is, it is a concern. Ultimately we are talking about a commoditization, a commodity market for an agricultural product at base level. Now, I think that the cannabis industry would be more benefitted by pursuing more of a consumer package goods model, rather than thinking of it necessarily as a commodity. Take Corn Flakes for example. Corn is a commodity. Corn Flakes is a consumer package good, and you so you can brand and charge more and market corn flakes very differently than you can a bushel of corn. So, thinking of it that way I think would be a good guidance for cannabis entrepreneurs.
Matthew: Yeah, I think of Tiffany’s also. Diamonds are a commodity in a sense, but the blue box from Tiffany’s is something that has real brand equity.
Cassandra: Absolutely, and that’s the way that we need to be thinking about things that are in this space.
Matthew: So, what’s the best strategy to get the most out of the conference in your opinion, especially for newcomers?
Cassandra: That’s a big question because the show has gotten big and it can feel intimidating, especially if it’s your first time at a cannabis event. So, the first thing I would say is, especially to newcomers, understand that this is a real business environment. This is not a consumer festival. Don’t feel like you’re walking into a smoke tent, something like that. This is a trade show like any other you’ve been to in whatever industry you’ve come from. If you are a newcomer, I highly recommend coming in a day early, on Tuesday the 14th and attending the Marijuana Business Crash Course. That even on Tuesday will be a smaller conference type activity that will really help you get centered in what the cannabis industry is, what it is not and help you understand what you want to be doing over the next three days of the show, what other conference sessions you want to attend, what exhibitors you really want to target to go visit, what kinds of people you want to meet over the next three days.
Then beyond that I would just say make sure that you have studied the conference agenda. Make sure that you’ve looked at the show floor. Have a plan going in as to this is what I want to do and what I want to get out of this show. I think it’s a really great idea to bring a common with you, especially if you’re looking to get a sense for the entire scope and scale of the marketplace. You may want to go talk to each and every one of those 650+ exhibitors in which case you really are going to need more than one person walking that show floor and having those conversations and understanding what all of those people are about.
Matthew: One little tactic I use is that it gets so overwhelming to meet so many people so quickly that when I meet someone new and plan on following up with each other just to take a selfie of you and that person together and when you email them say, hey this is me and you. Oh, right, I do remember you.
Cassandra: That’s a great idea. I love it.
Matthew: Thanks. How about an exhibitor? What can an exhibitor do to get the most foot traffic attention and how can they talk with people? Do they need to have an escalator pitch ready to get out what they need to get out and see if there’s a match and if not, move on to the next one? Do you have any strategies around that?
Cassandra: Absolutely. We start, all of our exhibitors take advantage of the retrieval systems that are included with their Show News, with their show packages. Every batch you will be able to just scan a badge and capture somebody’s information, make a couple of notes about it. So you can quickly capture those good leads that are going to be walking by your booth. You absolutely need an elevator type pitch, and you need everybody who is working your booth to be using it consistently, so that you can quickly go through and screen for, all right this is somebody that we want to be talking more to. Is this somebody we should then talk to more right now, or do we want to grab this person’s information and have them go on and reach out to them quickly next week or the week after.
It’s going to be a very busy show floor. There are going to be tons of highly qualified leads that will be walking by each and every one of those booths ready to make investment decisions and will be at MJ Biz Com to scope out which vendor or which partner they’re going to go out with. So, that’s the conversations you need to be prepared to have and that everybody in your business needs to be prepared to have. Beyond that, comfortable shoes. These are going to be some really exciting days and long ones, so make sure that you’ve gotten enough sleep and are ready to take this head on.
Matthew: Yeah, great suggestion there, and definitely having a team where one person can always be at the booth, because I know sometimes it’s just exhausting, so people take breaks, but then you go by their booth and there’s no one there. So, they’re missing out on some business. One question I have for you is let’s say I’m an exhibitor or considering making a booth, but I’ve never made a booth before. Is there any vendors or design firms or companies that you recommend that a listener reach out to in terms of creating a cool booth?
Cassandra: Sure. We have an entire exhibitor’s services manual that we provide to all of our exhibiting companies that has all of that information in there, tons of ideas, tons of vendors to reach out to to do those things. Our exhibit service company that we work with is Freeman. They provide those services. There are also lots of independents that work in the exhibit space. Lots of people come into the cannabis from another industry and have relationships with people from previous industries that have worked trade shows before and can capture those opportunities.
Then if you are more of a complete new entrepreneur startup activity, there’s tons of suggest in that exhibitor. So, this is mainly to make sure you use those documents that you have available to you. In addition, this year we’re about to release some exhibitor videos that we’ve put together to help our exhibitors walk through the last few weeks before the show, making sure that they have everything that they need ready. Make sure you have these checklists taken care of. Make sure you’re ready with your elevator and here’s a great way to staff your booth and those sorts of things so people can really take advantage of the opportunity of exhibiting at MJ Biz Com.
Matthew: I just want to circle back to the crash course for a second, because there’s a lot of people who have attended that who are listening, but then others that are considering hey, is that right for me. Can you just talk a little more detail about what you learn at the crash course?
Cassandra: You bet. We start about 10 o’clock in the morning with a cannabis industry overview, just sort of laying out the opportunity that is in front of you if you’re considering entering the cannabis marketplace. Then we go through, here’s a quick primer on cannabis itself. Here’s what it does. Here’s what it doesn’t do, those sorts of questions. Then into each of the major niches; cultivation, retail, infused products and how to put primer on all of those. All of these sessions include time for Q&A with the audience so that you can make sure you’re getting your questions answered, all of the contact information for all the speakers is included.
Those experts that we’re putting up on stage who have walked the road that the newbies in the audience are walking right now, they know who they can reach out to. It says, all right this person has been in my shoes and can answer my question. After we run through the niches, we go on with legal and accounting and banking, cash management, financing, both getting financing for your business, as well as deploying the finance into the cannabis space, if that’s what you’re angle is. So, this is about six to seven hours of just here is the quick download of what the cannabis space is and what the opportunities are, and that really has helped people their feet under them as they head into the rest of the show, meeting people. It helps them understand the lingo and know what things when they hear about them in the sessions later.
That crash course in fact has really helped us elevate the content that we’ve been able to put into the rest of the conference, because having given the new people an opportunity to get that base knowledge, we can then take that other conference to a 2 or 1 or 3 or 1 level. That really attracts and appeals to a much broader audience and helps the entire industry advance in that way.
Matthew: Great points. Let’s pivot to a couple personal development questions. Is there a book that has had a big impact on your life or way of thinking that you would like to share? It doesn’t have to be in the cannabis space or business space. Anything is fine.
Cassandra: I’m an Alabama girl, strangely enough. Back in the day I grew up in small town Alabama and one of my favorite books of all time has always been To Kill a Mockingbird. I read it when I was not quite Scott’s age, but I was a little older than that, but I read it when I was still fairly young. It had a big impression on me back then. Every time I go back and reread that book I’m just reminded of how important it is to be a good human, first and foremost, no matter what else happens. It’s just so important in personal development and personal happiness to be sure that you’re doing the right thing for people and with people first and foremost. That has in fact carried through to my business philosophy, they way that I run my company here. Ann and I set out in the early days to help people do their jobs better and run their businesses better. That philosophy has carried through to the way that the team here at MJ Biz Daily works. I have always wanted to create a place just where people enjoy what they’re doing. They feel successful about it, and they enjoy who they’re doing it with. Those things are all things that come out of To Kill a Mockingbird.
Matthew: Classic book. That’s a great book. I escaped Hurricane Matthew last year and went into Alabama for a couple of weeks just spontaneously. Driving all around through Birmingham and through the rolling hills and everything, and I was really impressed by it. I didn’t know what to think of Alabama, but Birmingham was really fun and interesting and there was a great farmer’s market there on Saturday. That whole scene I think is, I don’t know, like a merging America. People just don’t talk about it.
Cassandra: It is. Alabama is a great place to be from. The people are so warm and friendly. I have very near and dear family and friends still down there. I love being able to say that I’m from Alabama, even though in the cannabis space it does raise an eyebrow or two.
Matthew: Because Jeff Sessions is from there right.
Cassandra: Exactly. Jeff Sessions is from there. It is on the short list of states that will be last to legalize, which I agree with. I get it. I grew up around that environment, and I understand where those people are coming from. It’s just a, honestly and this is kind of a departure to politics and the drug war and all that sort of thing.
Is there a tool, web-based or otherwise, that you consider vital to your business operation or productivity?
Cassandra: We are actually experimenting and looking at several things that will enhance our reader experience with MJ Biz Daily and their web experience when they engage with that, as well as the conference experience. There is so much new and emerging conference technology that’s coming out from chat bots to app based systems, to things that you’ll actually be able to experience on the show floor this year at MJ Biz Com. I think it’s that amalgamation of technologies that we’re going to be able to tap into as the show and as MJ Biz Daily and as the cannabis industry continues to grow.
I’ll make another comment about technology and especially with cannabis. I’ve been thinking about this recently that I think there’s two key reasons why the cannabis industry has been on the growth trajectory it has been. There’s no question that it is become an economy, an industry that has gotten its legs under it, much more quickly than any before it. I think there’s two good reasons why. Number one is the fairly obvious, consumer adoption issue is that this is a product that people have been using for a very long time, and the only thing that’s stopping them from using more of it is access and legal status. The other reason why, beyond the fact that we don’t have to convince people here’s this new thing try this, people have already tried it and they know what it is and they know they want it. So, we don’t have that consumer adoption issue.
The other thing that we’re working with that no other industry has ever worked with before is that this is the first industry after the Dot Com boom. This is the first industry that has been created on the back of things like seed to sale software and Big Data harvesting and analysis and communication systems that are far more effective than they’ve ever been in the past. I think that the way that technology has fueled the cannabis industry is only going to continue to expand and then export back out into other mainstream industries.
Matthew: One thing I wanted to ask you about is the statistic about most businesses failing is really high, but when I look your and Ann’s track record you have a really good success record. What is the formula there? Do you try to get into emerging businesses that have strong profit potential, add value and then provide something back to those people? Is there a formula that you kind of follow?
Casssandra: To some degree there is. When we launched our products we always looked for an industry that was growing at 7 percent or more per year, that had a certain number, a critical mass of businesses with employees. So, not just some little entrepreneurs, but people who were making payroll, who felt a sense of obligation to I have to make sure my staffers get paid this week, because that has a different level of commitment to it as an entrepreneur and therefore staying power. Then a few other things. Yeah, we did follow a check list as we went through that, but I do think that it comes back to this sense of helping people do their jobs better.
If you give people a sense of comfort that not only are you a trustworthy source, but you are one that’s invested in your success, they will in turn invest in more success, and give you back what you need to be able to help them. It becomes a very positive and virtuous cycle that has really fueled our activities.
Matthew: It’s like a karmic snowball.
Cassandra: It is. It’s a good way to live life.
Matthew: Well Cassandra, thanks so much for coming on the show today. Can you give out your website and let people know how to register as an attendee or an exhibitor?
Cassandra: You bet. Actually our exhibit hall is completely sold out, but if you’re interested it is… but if you’re interested in being part of MJ Biz Com next year or in a future event, by all means reach out to our sales department firstname.lastname@example.org. You can register for the show at www.mjbizcon.com. For your listeners Matt we have a $50 discount available if they just use discount code CANNAINSIDER50. They’ll be able to get an additional $50 the sessions and exhibits price of the registration. If they register before October 19th, the price is $200 off sessions and exhibits, $100 an expo pass. So, if they get out there and get their registrations here in the next week, then we’ll be able to save them even more money that way.
Matthew: Great. Well, Cassandra, thanks so much for coming on the show and educating us. We really appreciate it.
Cassandra: Matt, I really appreciate the time
Jim Makoso is the co-founder of LucidOils.com in Seattle. Listen in as Matthew and Jim discuss the most important business and health aspects of cannabis oil extraction and distillation.
[1:07] – What is Lucid Oils
[1:36] – Jim’s background
[9:27] – Jim talks about modifying extraction machines
[12:33] – Distillation versus extraction
[15:23] – Why extract with ethanol
[18:30] – Jim talks about the filtering process
[21:47] – What is fractionation
[23:16] – Jim talks about terpenes
[26:57] – Preserving terpenes & flavonoids during extraction
[28:57] – Jim talks about product creation
[35:57] – Jim answers some personal development questions
[42:12] – Contact details for Lucid Oils
Learn more at:
What are the five trends that will disrupt cannabis in the next five years? Find out with your free report at https://www.cannainsider.com/trends
As edibles and cannabis infused products gain traction with consumers, more individuals and business owners and growers are looking to understand cannabis oil extraction. That is why I’m pleased to have on the show today Jim Makoso, cofounder of Lucid Oils. Jim, welcome to CannaInsider.
Jim: Hey Matt, thanks for having me. How are you today?
Matthew: I am great. Thanks for coming on. Give us a sense of geography. Where are you in the world today?
Jim: Actually right now I’m back here at home. My home right now is in Belleview, Washington. We do quite a bit of traveling for our work, but I have a couple days. I try to take a couple days every month to be at home, kind of get my house in order before going back on the road.
Matthew: What is Lucid Oils?
Jim: Lucid Oils is kind of a concept. It’s a brand, a consumer brand of Lucid Labs, which is really our parent company and that’s what we own. Essentially Lucid Labs/Lucid Oils is a licensing, branding and equipment design company focused on the cannabis industry.
Matthew: I want to get into that in a minute, but tell us first about your background and how you came to start Lucid oils.
Jim: My background, in general, I come from a finance, investment banking background, specifically , I studied economics and business finance in school, but took a departure from that several years ago when a friend of mine contacted me, who lived in Seattle at the time. I was living in Miami, and invited me to come out and see what was happening in the cannabis industry from a business standpoint. I’ve always been an enthusiast and consumer for personal use, but once I came out here to the West Coast, I started a company, a vaporizer company called Vuber Technologies. Shortly into that, having that business, we had the priviledge of selling that company and using the proceeds to start Lucid Oils back in 2015, back in January of 2015. Once we kind of got into the cannabis space specifically and had an idea of what was happening in the extraction world, it was a no brainer for us to hop in, figure out a business model and a plan that would work for us and start doing some business.
Matthew: That’s a big contrast from Miami to the Seattle area. Have you missed the sunshine of Miami, or do you like being in the rainy Northwest?
Jim: I’m from New York originally, so you hear all the stories, being from the East Coast, about the rain in Seattle, the software guys, so being a little bit more passive, aggressive up here. What I will say is when I first moved here the guys that I was investing with in that vaporizer company, they kind of sat me down and had a real conversation with me about how I needed to tone it down from my East Coast bravado of being loud. Too clean cut. They told me, let your beard grow, let your hair grow. This was when I still had hair before we started really working hard. Let your hair grow and really kind of breathe in the Pacific Northwest and understand the culture and that would enable me to do good business out here, and they were absolutely right.
The West Coast it’s a completely different vibe, specifically the Pacific Northwest. Yeah, it was a change, but what I can say now, living up here for four years, coming up on four years here in January, is this is by far one of the most beautiful parts of the country that I’ve ever been to and had the privilege to live in. Now I know what it’s all about. See, they tell people it rains here so that they’ll stay away, because they don’t share at all with anyone.
Matthew: Yeah, it is really beautiful up there.
Jim: It’s interesting. Being that we’ve been in business coming up on three years officially with products on the shelves for two and a half years here in December, it’s been quite the ride and currently we still have a very small team. When I say startup, let’s just call it a small business in terms of revenue, but a startup mentality still. Meaning, we wear all the hats we need to wear in order to get our business done. Kind of our motto is there’s four of us from an ownership standpoint that have a stake in this business, and there’s three of us out of the four that actually are carrying out tasks. One investor who is passive and he gets the reports quarterly and that annual report of how we’re doing.
So, what we focus on is leveraging our partnerships, which we have several in different and then as well on the equipment side in order to get done the day-to-day tasks, and we handle more of the macro stuff. My typical week and then month really is I’ll be in any number of states. Usually two weeks out of the month I’m in Nevada working on our Reno licensing deal where we work with a company called Greenleaf Wellness to produce all of the oil products that come out of that relationship to distribute to various recreational dispensaries throughout the state with a focus on our core customers are really in Las Vegas. It’s a really big bolstering market, and so I go down there two weeks a month just to kind of manage the team. We have two hired employees that are full time down there in our partnership that kind of run the lab. Then either myself or one of my partners are down there on the weeks I’m not.
So, that’s two weeks out of the month. On the other two weeks of the month, one week is usually spent with any number of laboratories installing and training people on how to use the equipment that we’ve designed. We work with a company out of Maryland called BR Instruments, where my business partner who is an engineer, redesigned one of their systems with help, but redesigned one of their systems to specifically work with cannabis distillation, to work with cannabis as an input and distill it using their system. That company originally was a petroleum and essential oil equipment manufacturer where they were creating these specific customized systems to fractionally distill petroleum, new petroleum deposits so that a company could then build a huge still based on those deposits and essential oil companies that were focusing on specific essential oils.
So, when we came in we used their equipment. My partner had redesigned it for our applications and we partnered with them to do that. So, now we go as a part of that relationship, a part of that partnership. We do, we install those pieces of equipment when people buy them, and we train them how to make what we call a lucid quality of oil and certainly that’s been very lucrative for us over the past year. So, one of the other two weeks that I have available, that’s exactly what I’m doing. I’m out there installing, meeting people and educating them on how to make better quality oil using our equipment.
Then that fourth week out of the month, typically, I’m pretty active in the business development side, either attending trade shows anywhere in the country, in some cases outside of the country. Continuing to build some existing relationship where maybe we haven’t gotten to a contractual step yet, but we’re in the conversation, bouncing around some letters of intent and other types of paperwork, and really landscaping the market. In the existing markets we’re in to see maybe where we can be more efficient. That’s kind of what my month looks like. So, I’m very happy to say, since I have a difficult time sticking to one task at a desk 40 hours a week, I have the flexibility in my current role here in my company to do any number of things in a given month. It’s structured, generally, but it allows enough flexibility where the scenery is always changing, but we’re always working towards one specific goal, which is increasing our footprint in this landscape and improving the quality of the products that we put out and helping others to improve the quality of the products that they’re putting out.
Matthew: Maybe you can talk a little bit about distillation and why you felt the need, you and your partner, to modify the machine. What were the machines on the market not doing that you felt like you had to modify a machine with your partner in Maryland, extraction machine?
Jim: That’s a great question because we get asked that pretty often by guys when they see the system that we co-developed with BR Instruments. Back when we first started, when we were first doing the research, before we had officially launched our company in January 2015. Back at that time there was really only one company putting out this product and they called it The Clear. It was these guys out of California. They were using what they call a short path distillation system, which is still very commonly used today. It was more of a high school chemistry or college chemistry set. Very effective in the right hands, and the guys had started that. Really smart guys, very well respected throughout the industry, known for continually pushing the quality of products. A guy out of Boston who ended up in California, who is a chemist, a guy by the name of Chris Baroni [ph], really started distilling cannabis initially in scale for production purposes, and he was using a short path distillation system.
You see many people still using short path distillation systems, but at that time we were using that and we had contracted with a PhD in Organic Chemistry who recommended the BR Instrument system. Keep in mind, before we used that no one in the industry had purchased one for the distillation of cannabis. So, it was, as yet, unproven. So, we kind of took a chance, and the reason being is their system featured a software component that allowed you to record the data of your run in 30 second increments, but all of the data required in order to do good data analysis, but more importantly to be able to repeat that process consistently by taking note of temperatures, pressures of different cuts, or what they call fractions, as you were distilling. That to us was something, as guys that didn’t have a science background, my partner is more of an electrical engineer and my background being finance, it was important for us to be able to capture that data.
Once we got that piece of equipment, it took us a pain staking month and a half to dial it in and we ran through thousands of grams, several kilos of oil, before we kind of figured it out. So, as you can imagine, that was probably in our business the most stressful time, because it was unproven. We spent lots of money on all this equipment. We had a new relationship that was getting restless with our inability to produce the quality of the oil that we had promised, but once we made it over the hump, we realized we had something special and the rest is current if you will.
Matthew: When you talk about distillation versus extraction, can you talk about what those terms means and how they differ and overlap?
Jim: Yeah, absolutely. In a real basic way, distillation is not extraction. Extraction is removing specific compounds from bio mesh or from a plant or from some type of botanical. Removing or extracting the specific components that you want using some sort of solvent or some process, typically a solvent. When I say a solvent, the most common ones in extraction in cannabis are hydrocarbons, that’s your BHO, your butane, your propane and other hydrocarbons. There’s ethanol, that’s another common form of extraction, that’s your alcohol. Then there’s CO2 extraction. Those are the solvent based, most common forms of extraction.
Distillation is what we would call a refining process. So, once you’ve extracted that material using one of those extraction methods, you’re going to put it through a number of processes. Generally most people will filter it in one way or another in order to remove or refine that product down to an even higher concentration of purity with less contaminants. Distillation is one of the final steps that you’re seeing people utilize in order to really purify the product to a higher level to specifically isolate those compounds which typically you wouldn’t be able to get out in any other way, unless you use some type of chemical liquid, liquid separation.
Typically the process is extract that material, create what they call crude oil, take that crude oil, filter it in any number of ways. Once it’s filtered, refine that crude oil in the distillation process in order to really isolate the cannabinoids from all the other compounds. Of course there’s additional steps that people are implementing now to isolate cannabinoids from each other, but that’s kind of the flow, the process flow. Once you’ve grown your product, you extract it. That will pull out the cannabinoids and maybe some contaminants. Once you have that crude oil, you filter it in order to separate a majority of those contaminants. Then once you’ve filtered it, you distill it in order to isolate cannabinoids from everything else.
Matthew: What do you think about extracting with ethanol in general? People know about this, they’ve heard about but they perhaps don’t know that much about it in detail. Why would you want to extract with ethanol versus some other medium?
Jim: The thing with extraction is the method of, or the solvent that you use to extract typically is based on one of two or three factors. Depending on where you are extracting, and let’s assume you’re doing everything by the books and you’re licensed either medically or recreationally in a state that allows it, typically the regulations of that state will be restrictive in terms of what you can and can’t use as a solvent. For instance in Northern California it’s very difficult for them to use ethanol as a solvent, so they have to use CO2 or hydrocarbon. In some states, and in some countries in fact, like in Canada for instance, hydrocarbons are frowned upon. Not only because they’re so called dangers because they have a very low boiling, so they’re in a vapor at room temperature and ignite with a very small spark, but also because it’s very difficult to get all those hydrocarbons out of your extract, once you’ve extracted.
Ethanol or any of the other solvents, it really is dependent on the product you wish to produce as well as where you’re actually carrying out your extraction that will determine what’s the most effective method. We like ethanol specifically in our process primarily because most of our products right now are just distilled products. In other words we’re taking that crude oil, filtering it and distilling it with 95 percent of all the material that we extract, because that creates our Lucid quality oil, and of course in Washington because we work with an edible manufacturer and as it turns out, distilled oil produces a very high quality input oil for edibles. It doesn’t have taste. It’s really high in purity and it’s easy to work with.
The ethanol that we use specifically is food grade, 200 proof ethanol and what we find is that if you extract with ethanol, with the right parameters, you can produce a really high quality product in terms of being able to get a full spectrum extract, but simultaneously pulling any water soluble or chlorophyll or any water soluables, plant proteins, waxes, lipids. If you’ve done the math and all the extraction the right way, it’s very efficient in that it will pull 92 percent plus of all the cannabinoids available in a very short period of time, while leaving behind the water soluble. So, that’s why we use ethanol in our process. We’ve dialed our process in to be very effective with that solvent.
Matthew: So, extract, filter, distill. That’s the process. You extract with ethanol and then you filter. What is filter, before you go to distilling, how do you filter specifically?
Jim: Filtration, there’s still a huge differing school of thought, a huge amount of difference in the school of thoughts on filtration. Most people generally agree you want to get lipids and fats out, unless you’re putting it in to a chocolate edible or something where you can leave a little bit of the lipids in there, even though we don’t recommend that. The filtration though, generally, people are trying to accomplish really one thing. That is remove as much of the non-cannabinoids, non-terpenoids, non-flavonoids from the product as possible, while maintaining the integrity of those products, meaning add the least amount of heat so you’re not degrading any of those compounds, but remove as much of those contaminants as possible.
So, when you say specifics about filtration, depending on who you ask, that’s going to differ. What we generally will do with all of our samples is filter it with several different micron filters to remove solid particulate that maybe is picked up in the run. Our typical ethanol extraction process where we have five micron filters on there as it is, so we’re pulling most of the solid material out. Five microns is a very small size. Then we’ll run it through… we’ll concentrate that by removing a lot of ethanol from those runs to get a concentration bat size, meaning anticipated cannabinoids in that solution is about 2,000 to 3,000 grams with a 7 to 1, approximately, ratio of ethanol to anticipated cannabinoids. Once we have that ratio, we’ll then go filter it with a pretty common process that people are doing.
We’ll scrub it with a specific type of carbon, then put it through several filter media, different types of compounds to remove the carbon and to pull out a little bit more of the color pigments before we take that. Reduce it all the way down, by removing all the ethanol solution where you are left with a crude that has been filtered and is ready for distillation. The filter media is going to differ from person to person and differ from product to product. Someone who is, per se, looking for a full plant extract, they’re probably not going to filter that very much. They’ll filter it through some filter papers to remove solid mass. They’ll remove all the solvent and then that’s what they would consider a full plant extract or RSO is what you’ll hear it commonly referred to, [21.15 unclear] Oil, but full spectrum, full plant extract is really what that is. You’ll do the least amount of filtering there. For our purposes to produce distilled, high quality oil or let’s just say distilled oil, we put it through a pretty rigorous filter media in order to remove as many contaminants as possible to get to that raw cannabis oil.
Matthew: Can you tell us a little bit about fractionation, what that means and why it’s important?
Jim: Real high level, the fractionation, you’ll hear that term often. All it really means is taking specific fractions while you’re doing extraction. There are some companies that have, as a part of their CO2 systems, the ability to fractionate. Generally they’re fractionating by removing the water compounds in one fractions, the terpene compounds in another, the cannabis compounds, the cannabinoid compounds all in one fraction, but the idea is you’re separating the plant into individual components. In the process of extraction, you’re separating your terpene content from your cannabinoid content.
In the context of distillation, what people are trying to do is separate even further your terpenes and terpenoids from your cannabinoids and some people are trying to go one step further and separate cannabinoids from each other. The idea of fractionation is just separating the compounds or groups of compounds into smaller and smaller units to get higher purities.
Matthew: Can you talk about terpenes a little bit, because we’ve got a lot of new listeners. I want to make sure they understand what terpenes are and why they’re important and why you’re taking so much care in positioning terpenes properly?
Jim: Terpenes, that’s really kind of a loaded word in the industry right now. People are starting to realize that terpenes first of all, you will find them in all botanicals throughout the plant kingdom. They are responsible for the smell, the smell of the plants. From pining and pine trees, which are also cannabinoids, terpenes are the same throughout the plant kingdom. They’re just responsible for at least initially to our sense of smell, the smell of the plants throughout the plant kingdom, and they serve a number of functions. Some of those functions are to protect the plants, some of those functions are byproducts, etc. Terpenes, as they’re related to cannabis, the same terpenes that you’ll find throughout the plant kingdom are the same terpenes that you find in cannabinoids. There are no, at least to my knowledge, there are no terpenes that are unique at this moment that we know of to cannabinoids. You can find them in other plants. Maybe one day somebody will disprove that or maybe there’s someone out there now who can disagree with that, but in general all terpenes throughout the plant kingdom are the same.
They’re essentially a naturally occurring hydrocarbon based on a combination of what are called isoprene units. These are the building blocks of terpenes and terpenoids. Terpenoids are compounds related to terpenes which may include some oxygen functionality or some rearrangement, however the two terms are often used interchangeably, but terpenes are isoprene units that are naturally occurring hydrocarbons and terpenoids are terpenes that include some oxygen functionality in the rearrangement as molecules. So, terpenes are responsible for those flavors and tastes. Flavonoids are to a lesser extent in that group, and they are exactly as they sound, flavor units that you’re finding inside of the plants. They generally don’t have a smell but do have a taste.
The reason why they’re such a hot topic now in the industry is because science has proven that an interaction between terpenes and cannabinoids are what create the effects that people are familiar with that give us the psychotropic and physiological effects that are either beneficial physiologically or giving us that high, what they call high or a psychotropic sensation. It’s a combination and an interplay between terpene molecules and cannabinoid molecules and flavonoids working together in what they call an entourage effect to give the efficacy that can be recreation or what scientists are figuring out, the medicinal in treating specific ailments.
Matthew: How do you take special care during the extraction filtering and distilling process to preserve those terpenes and flavonoids to make sure you get the desired outcome? Is there any steps you take that might be interesting to listeners?
Jim: For us we just tell everybody who is in extraction and anybody who is interested in it generally in this topic. From an extraction standpoint, as soon as you’re adding heat to any of those compounds are changing, and conforming into their longer chain cousins or completely different molecules all together. Heat is the enemy of terpenes. As you add heat or just oxygen to these compounds, they’re changing to different versions of themselves and different compounds all together. Typically what you’ll find is that when people are extracting material with the idea that they want to preserve the terpenes, they’ll be doing it as cold as possible and a vacuum if possible, and they’re using things that are very… where they have very low vapor pressure meaning that their boiling points are very low.
A great way to preserve terpenes is using hydrocarbon extract or using hydrocarbon as a solvent. Even CO2 are getting really good at extracting terpenes using CO2 in an initial step with lower pressures. In our process we extract the terpenes before we even extract the product, the cannabinoids themselves. So, there are different steps that you can implement, but the idea is you want to be cold and you want to be pretty gentle on the pressure side.
Matthew: We’ve talked about how the terpenes and the flavonoids help create the aroma and flavor and so forth, but how do you create a flavor and a taste and sensation and experience that you consider optimal? You have arrived at well, if we have this terpene/flavonoid/cannabinoid profile, this is what’s ideal for us?
Jim: That’s a great question. The interplay of physiological effects and creating a product are unique. Cannabis is not a compound like Advil or Tylenol where it’s really just one compound. Cannabis, as people think of it, is the interplay of hundreds of compounds working together to give us an effect. So, two things are at play when we are looking at product creation in a general sense. One is who is going to be consuming this product, and what is the desire effect? Because each person is different, when they consume, how they consume, their body, specifically, their metabolism. In general, every single person’s reaction to a plant could be completely different. We can say in a general sense, seven out of ten people should get this reaction, so that’s how we try to formulate our products.
This specific topic of effect versus formulation or formulating a product for a specific effect is something that everyone in the industry who creates a product is trying to understand as we speak, and this is being studied right now at a scientific level, and that is what specifically, what compounds, what combination of these compounds, cannabinoids and terpenes will produce a specific effect. That’s a very very tough thing to approach as a product maker, but you’re starting to find that people are at least using cannabinoids to start to create products, specifically for an effect. I’ll just give you a quick example.
Let’s just talk about on the recreational side. CBN, which is a degradation product of THC. When THC has been exposed to enough oxygen and light it changes its components. Some of the molecules, molecular bonds move to different positions and you get what most consider a degradation compounds. It’s CBN or Cannabinol. That compound, which is a degradation compound of THC, is generally know to be sedative in nature. So, if you’ve ever smoked really really old weed or your consumers have smoke really really old week, typically it will make you a little sleepy, give you a little couch lock, but give you the heavy eyelids, and that’s because some of that THC in there is converted to CBN.
What some people are releasing is these CBN products where they’re purposely degrading material or taking old material and increasing the temperature and closing it to light to get a higher compound, a higher concentration of CBN and putting it out as a product. That’s just one example, but generally speaking, that is what people are trying to do now is figure out ways that these things interplay with the average consumer to create a tailored effect.
Matthew: When you’re designing you your customer terpene profile are there any undesirable things that you can pick up in the process if it’s done incorrectly. Particularly, you see novice people or people that are just starting out do?
Jim: Yeah, well generally speaking, let’s look at the case of a vaporizer. Most people are introducing terpenes into their oils so that they’ll work in a vaporizer. Most people know what a vaporizer is, but if you don’t, it’s similar to like those e-cigarettes that you see people have out there. It’s essentially a heating element that heats up that oil to a certain temperature so that it will turn into a vapor so that you can inhale it. It’s not smoking, it’s vaporizing. It really is the vapor of those compounds that you are inhaling and that’s why when you exhale it it doesn’t really leave much of a residue like a smoke, unless you have very high volumes of it.
In the case of a vaporizer, people are adding terpenes in order to thin out their oil in order to make it work in a vaporizer. The issue with that is because terpenes are hydrocarbons, if you have such a high amount of those, sometimes that will lead to some people look at a hypoallergenic reaction to it. They’ll sneeze. They’ll have the itchy throat, and that’s because when those terpenes are reacting with that vaporizer it’s a chemical reaction that’s happening at that point of contact, increasing that temperature to a very high temperature and changing those compound, those terpene specific, into something else. You get this situation where people are adding more terpenes than probably what’s necessary to be there, definitely more than what’s naturally occurring in the plant, and you get this kind side reaction.
There is no idea as to what the long term effects of these types of things are going to be. I’m sure at some point in the near future some of these studies will begin. I know one scientist at least that’s already studying the vapor from various different vaporizer cartridges, but generally speaking, terpenes in general are hydrocarbons, and you find them in all types of products on the shelf that aren’t cannabis products. What we’re seeing now is that people are starting to become, as product makers, are starting to realize that is, like food manufacturing, there is an unlimited direction that you can go in in creating these products. Not only edible products, but all products for consumption.
In any case where you are adding any compounds to something that’s going to be consumed by human, via smoking, vaporizing, eating, applying topically, you just want to take a really close look at the combination of the compounds you’re putting in there and making sure that they’re safe for your consumers.
Matthew: Jim, let’s pivot to some personal development questions. I like to help listeners get to know you a little bit more on a personal level. With that, is there a book that’s had a big impact on your life or way of thinking that you’d like to share?
Jim: Yeah, there is one book that has a big impact on my way of life and my mentality. This might be a surprise to many, but the Bible. I’m a man of faith. I try not to press it on anybody else, because I fail a lot as an individual. I’m a human, but I definitely apply my life at a personal level. I try to live up to the standards that are found in the Bible. That’s a sense of morality that my parents instilled in us, and above everything, that was always the most important thing they tried to imprint on our lives. In my case, and several of my siblings, it stuck. I fail of course a lot as a human and as a Christian man, but that’s certainly the standard that I try to live to.
Outside of that from a professional standpoint, surprisingly the Art of the Deal, which I’m not a big fan of Donald Trump, but that book in specific there’s some really great stuff in there. In general, I would just say anybody who’s looking to do anything professionally or otherwise, reading in general, stimulating the critical thinking parts of your brain by reading something that’s academic or reading something that’s fantasy. In general, that’s just going to help keep your brain sharp and the ability to think and imagine. I find that reading in general, just for anyone, is just a good way to keep your brain very active and for a creative person, reading something that is imaginative that stimulates your imagination is just going to be good for your work.
Matthew: How about a tool? Is there a tool that you consider vital to your productivity?
Jim: Absolutely, and it has been ever since I’ve been a professional. I use Microsoft Excel basically for everything. For all analysis, for all backend, anything from a business standpoint, be it evaluating pricing in the market, I use Excel. In a smaller way, the market is pretty fragmented at the moment, so state-to-state there are different rules that apply in different access to information. For instance, here in Washington I use a tool called Headset, which was actually started by the same guys who started Leafly. I use Headset to review information about the market, market trends, growth, contraction, pricing and Headset is a great tool for that here in Washington, but that’s not a tool that’s readily available in other states yet, even though I know they’re making a push in Colorado and California.
Excel is like my go to software tool that I use for everything, and of course here in Washington, Headset, the piece of software equipment that provides real-time data on pricing and market trends is another great tool.
Matthew: Yeah, Headset is a great tool. We’ve had Cy, a cofounder of Headset, on the show. That’s definitely something. How do you use that Headset, just so other people can understand that data. What kind of insights does it give you as a business owner and someone in the extraction community?
Jim: Yeah absolutely. Well, the great thing about their software is they’re so well-respected in the space, not only here in Washington, but in the space because they created Leafly, which is one of the most well-know apps and companies for cannabis in the space. So, they’re very well-respected throughout the industry, but that specific piece of software what it does is it provides a real-time, day-to-day metric of what’s happening in the industry. So, I think of it from my trading days, similar to a Bloomberg terminal, which is giving you the feedback of all the pricing and the bid asks throughout the stock market on a specific security, stocks, bonds, etc., but the Bloomberg terminal is like the tool that everybody was using in order to have an idea of what was going on in the industry.
Similarly Headset is like a software, a piece of software that is giving you a real-time snapshot of what’s happening in the industry. So, for somebody like myself, a finance guy who is analytical in nature, to be able to landscape the industry and take raw data and create my own dashboard, create my own visual way to review that data in real-time, for me just provides me a snapshot of what’s happening in the market and allows me to anticipated kind of the direction the market is going in, in terms of pricing and consumer preference. So, for anybody who is serious about doing business in Washington it’s an essential tool to know what’s going on. Let’s say you’re not as plugged in to the market as I am where I have plenty of salespeople and plenty of business owners in different parts and aspects of the industry where I can call them up and get an idea of what they’re experiencing in their business, let’s say you didn’t have access to all that and you were entering the market for the first time or you’re from out of state entering the market, Headset will provide you with a real-time analysis of what’s happening in the market.
Of course, quarterly and annually they put out a report that’s all pretty and really well-written that kind of gives you that snapshot. It provides you with that information in real-time, daily. So, it’s an essential tool for anybody in Washington who is serious about competing in this space. Now, Washington is very very competitive market and that tool definitely allows to have the advantage when pricing and when looking at the market from a macro level.
Matthew: Very cool, thanks for sharing how you use that. Jim, as we close, can you tell listeners how they can learn more about Lucid Oils and connect with you?
Jim: Yeah, absolutely. Well, you can connect with me, you can shoot me an email, email@example.com. If you have any questions about the industry or questions specifically about equipment we’re working on, questions about markets we’re in, feel free. I’ll tell everybody, use me as a resource. You can also connect with me, I do a number of the shows throughout the year where I’ll go and educate people on extraction, usually macro, real high level, just to give people an idea of what’s going on in the space. A part of my talk I usually focus on industry trends, what’s happening, the hot topics. This year you can catch me at, the remainder of the year I’m doing one more show in November in Las Vegas called the Marijuana Business Conference and Expo.
I’ll be hosting a panel on extraction and future trends in technology. On that panel will be A.C. Braddock, Eden Labs, Brian Abernathy, the CEO and Cofounder of Extracted Labs Refine Seattle, one of the biggest extraction companies in the country, easily. Then also on that panel will be one of my good friends, a colleague from Buke, Kelsey. She is a chemist by trade. She’s a Masters in Chemistry, but she’s the top rep for Buke here in the states on the West Coast. We’re going to have some great minds on that panel and we’re going to be discussing future trends in technology, so anybody who is in Vegas who plans on being at that show, you can come catch me at the panel. Then of course I’ll have two booths at that show with two different partners where you can come and take a look at some of the equipment and some of the tech we’re working on there in Las Vegas. Outside of that, you can catch me on Instagram, or at least my company, @LucidOils, as well as on Facebook, Lucid Oils, and then of course my website, www.lucidoils.com.
Matthew: Well, Jim thanks so much for coming on the show today and educating us. We really appreciate it.
Jim: Hey Matt, thanks for the time and anytime you need any more information on that front from me, you know how to reach me, but I’m a big fan of your show and I appreciate that you’d have me on it.
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