Ep 334 – Master Grower Shares Secrets of World Class Cannabis Cultivation

ryan douglas cultivation

Commercial cannabis growers are notoriously tight-lipped when it comes to their growing methods, but not Ryan Douglas. Today this master grower shares all the secrets you need to take your grow to the next level (including what not to do).

Learn more at https://douglascultivation.com/about 

Key Takeaways:

[00:54] An inside look at Ryan’s new book, From Seed To Success

[1:35] Ryan’s background as CanopyGrowth’s expert cultivator when the company was still named Tweed

[3:01] How Ryan helped CanopyGrowth get its start as one of Canada’s first and largest licensed growers

[6:05] How Ryan went about choosing the best genetics to grow at CanopyGrowth

[7:42] The efficiencies required for a large commercial grow

[11:37] The most common mistakes commercial growers make and how to avoid them

[14:33] Ryan’s advice on how to approach a commercial grow and determine what needs to be done on a high level

[17:22] How to determine a reasonable budget for your commercial grow

[19:02] Best hiring practices for commercial grows and what to look for in staff members

[20:34] How to mitigate pest issues

[26:34] The best type of lights for indoor grows

[27:57] Where Ryan sees commercial cannabis grows heading over the next 3-5 years

Click Here to Read Full Transcript

Matthew Kind: Hi, I'm Matthew Kind. Every Monday, look for a fresh new episode where I'll take you behind the scenes and interview the insiders that are shaping the rapidly evolving cannabis industry. Learn more at cannainsider.com, that's cannainsider.com. Now, here's your program.

Often, commercial cannabis growers are tight-lipped about the best practices that used to grow world-class plants and customers want and to bring in profits. Today, commercial grower Ryan Douglas is going to pull back the kimono and share all the secrets you need to take your grow to the next level. Ryan, welcome to CannaInsider.

Ryan Douglas: Hi Matt. Thanks for having me on, it's a pleasure to be here.

Matthew: Give us a sense of geography. Where are you in the world today?

Ryan: I'm in Florida on Vero Beach, so it's about two hours north of Miami.

Matthew: Okay. Can you tell us a little bit about your new book, From Seed to Success?

Ryan: Sure. This is basically a guide book for anyone from any industry that's interested in launching a commercial cultivation operation. It's basically set up as a step-by-step guide for not only planning and designing but also executing and expanding a successful commercial cannabis grow operation.

Matthew: Okay, so it's not just for someone that's about to launch one, it's also for people that currently have a commercial grow too?

Ryan: Exactly, exactly because there's as many companies looking to expand as there are looking to start from scratch.

Matthew: Yes. This is important stuff. I want to dig into this, but before we do, can you just give us a little background about how you got into this business, what you were doing prior, and so forth?

Ryan: Sure. My background, my training is actually in traditional horticulture. Before even touching cannabis on a commercial scale, I was a greenhouse grower of ornamental and edible crops for about 15 years across the US. Then as cannabis slowly became decriminalized, I started looking to transition basically the crop I was growing, but keep the same line of work.

What I found is that 90% of the techniques and principles used for cultivating flowers or vegetables or herbs are directly applicable to cannabis. As cannabis became more and more at least decriminalized, then I became more interested in entering that that line of work. I was lucky enough to land a job as the head grower for a company called Tweed, which is today known as Canopy Growth Corporation in Canada.

Matthew: Yes, gosh, that's one of the biggest success stories in the cannabis space now publicly traded. It's one of the biggest, and we had CEO Bruce Linton on when it was called Tweed. There's a throwback for listeners that want to go back to those original-- That was a long time ago. That seems like it seemed like cannabis 1.0, so I'm glad we're going to hear some of the Genesis here. Most people have heard of Tweed that now became Canopy Growth, but what were you doing when you first started with them? How did you set up a-- That's an enormous grow I imagine. What was that like?

Ryan: That was exciting. Bruce hired me over a dinner one night in Ottawa back in 2013 and I just never looked back. That was a really exciting ride. At the time, I was a cultivation manager for a small dispensary in Maine. I was thrilled to be working with cannabis legally, but compared to the greenhouses I'd been operating, it was a relatively small grow area. Almost immediately, I started looking for something that would be much more challenging, but still in the cannabis world.

I read that Tweed was looking for a head grower and I just followed the typical paths of landing a job through reaching out with a resume and phone interview, and then I landed the in-person interview with Bruce in Ottawa and we took it from there. You're right, it was a massive undertaking because we were one of the first licensed producers in Canada. I think we were the seventh.

We not only had consumers that were waiting to purchase product, but we also had Health Canada, which was the entity responsible for regulating the program. They wanted to have some licensed producers actively growing and selling cannabis. There was never a dull moment for the first couple of years at work there.

Matthew: Okay. Bruce goes big. He likes to go big. How many plants were you growing?

Ryan: Yes, so at that time, we were restricted by the amount of grow rooms that we had licensed. The way that Health Canada set up the program is you received a cultivation license, which gave you permission to cultivate, but you had to have individual grow rooms okayed by Health Canada. At the time, at the beginning of that program, it was a relatively slow process.

Our goal initially was to set up six rooms of about 2,000 square feet each, and you would stick about 500 plants in each of those rooms. The short term immediate goal was to grow with 3,000 plus plants that we could load up half a dozen grow rooms and that was actually the foundation of the cultivation program at Canopy.

Matthew: Okay. Eventually, it moved into a Hershey factory in Ontario or something like that. Did I get that right?

Ryan: Yes, that's where we started. When they hired me in 2013, the company didn't have a license so part of my job was to help the group identify a facility that would be appropriate for building out into a commercial cultivation facility. What they found was a former Hershey chocolate factory in Smiths Falls, Ontario, which had been empty for seven years. It was huge, there was plenty of space. There was a lot of electrical power, a lot of water, and it was actually the idea of location. Because it had sat empty for seven years, the price was right on point, so that's how we ended up there.

Matthew: Okay. How did you pick the genetics to grow?

Ryan: Well, at the time the regulations prohibited us from acquiring genetics from any source that was not already licensed to grow them. At that point in Canada, for several years prior, they had a medicinal cannabis program for home growers. With the new program is basically licensed to large commercial growers, but we had to acquire genetics from those home cultivators.

It was so while I was busy, designing the facility and hiring the team, and planning production, we had people that were reaching out to these licensed home growers to see if they'd be interested in selling their genetics and then seeing what they had and in what quantities. Once these folks reported back with their findings, then I was able to select what I thought made sense to really launch the cultivation program with.

Matthew: Okay. Are you just getting cuttings from mother plants then? Is that what was happening?

Ryan: We had more luck finding seeds. The risk with starting from cuttings from other plants is that you bring in everything that's on that plant. There's a high likelihood of either a disease or an insect coming, hitching a ride with that plant. Since we had just built a brand new custom-designed facility for cannabis, really didn't want to start off with two strikes against us by inviting in potential problems. By starting from seed, we eliminate that risk to some extent.

Matthew: Okay. Yes. What kind of efficiencies are required for a grow that large?

Ryan: Those six grow rooms, relatively speaking, it wasn't that big, but my goal was to design a production facility that had the capacity to really expand relatively quickly and relatively seamlessly. From the get-go, there was a couple of systems I put in place that would really increase the efficiency, but also would support a much larger expansion. Just quickly, two of those were the environmental control system and a fertigation system.

An environmental control system, what that does is it allows either the owners or the head grower to view on one screen, monitor everything that's happening in the production facility, and make changes as well. With the click of a button, you could look at a grow room and see how the HVAC equipment, the dehumidification equipment is functioning. If the lights are on, how many lights are on, if the fans are moving, carbon dioxide levels, and it lets you adjust those so you can do that remotely or on-site.

The second piece of equipment was a fertigation system. Fertigation is simply the adding of fertilizer to irrigation water. Watering irrigating plants is a task that happens just about every single day in a production facility, and the amount of time it takes to fill a tank, measure, fertilizer apply the fertilizer empty of the tank. It seems like a pretty straightforward process, but it can consume 10% of a person's workday. You multiply that day after day, week after week for years and you're spending a lot of money on labor on that one task. By automating the irrigation we free up the labor and it ensures that we have a relatively lean production program in the future as they expand as well.

Matthew: Okay. What about harvest cycles then? Do you have a different harvest period for different rooms to make it easier on yourself or how does that work?

Ryan: Yes, so really the most efficient way to set up a production facility is to that have a perpetual harvest cycle. Whether we're talking about an indoor grow up or a greenhouse, if you were to load up that facility all at once and harvest it all at once, you need a really big space to dry it, a really big space to process it. You need a lot of people all at once to do the trimming. Then once it's done, you don't need that empty space, and you have to let all those people go. It's much more efficient to harvest smaller quantities but do so regularly. Really just about every two weeks is ideal.

Matthew: Okay. Did you use trimming machines or trim by hand or how does that work?

Ryan: Yes, so we did both. Initially, we started out by hand. Once you get into really big volumes, that really eats into your labor costs. Towards the end of my tenure there, we automated the trimming.

Matthew: Gosh. Can you tell us anything about the drying and curing process?

Ryan: Yes. It's a critical step because it's actually possible in a week or 10 days to ruin all of the previous couple of months of work if the drying process isn't done correctly. It's simply a balance of the correct temperature and the correct humidity and slowly allowing the moisture to leave the plant. If it's too hot and too dry, and it's done too quickly, it can negatively affect the quality of the flower and it can destroy some of the active ingredients, the cannabinoids or terpenes that the plant has.

On the flip side, if it's done too slow, or the temperature is too cold, and the humidity is too high, the crop can easily begin to rot in the drying room. It's a question of finding the balance between temperature, humidity, and airflow. Generally, a crop should be dried within about 7, maximum of 10 days from the day it's harvested.

Matthew: In your mind, what are the most common preventable problems commercial growers could avoid but don't?

Ryan: There's a couple, probably the biggest two, I think are especially for startups, selecting a really complicated grow method. There's lots of different ways to grow cannabis. What I find, oftentimes, are groups that are new to the process, they do a lot of reading and investigating and they find that certain ways of growing produce the most amount of product, grow the plant the fastest, and have the least likelihood of disease or insect infestation, which is great, but there's some really advanced methods of growing, which are inappropriate for startups.

If you think in a new facility, you've got a new cultivation team, you likely have new genetics, everything is brand new. If you start with the most advanced, most difficult method of growing, it has a very low margin for error. Because most startups in any industry are not pretty, you really want to eliminate potential risks or things that could go wrong.

There's methods of growing called Deep Water Culture, or Aeroponics. Basically, the plant is suspended in water or it's suspended in the air and the roots are misted by a nutrient solution. There's so many valves and tubes and pipes, and there's so many variables that have to come together just perfect for that crop to get pulled off that it's really risky for a startup to go that way. Probably one of the biggest mistakes I see is that companies from the get-go, elect a very advanced, inappropriate method of cultivation to start with.

Probably the second mistake I see right behind that is selecting too many genetics to start with from the get-go. I've had clients that have wanted to start between 50 and 100 different varieties from seed to launch their cultivation facility. That's extremely unlikely. Even a world-class skilled grower is going to have a very difficult time pulling that off. I tell people to start with maybe five or eight, maximum of 10 varieties because if you can't launch a cultivation facility successfully and quickly doing it with five varieties, you'll never do it with 50.

Matthew: It sounds like there's a lot of biting off more than you could chew because you don't know the level of difficulty when you're doing it for the first time?

Ryan: Yes, and there's a lot of excitement. Especially if you're new to the industry, there's so much technology and information and equipment, everything sounds good. There's a tendency to want that implemented all at once so you have just the best, most efficient production facility but, if you're not from the industry, you really need a consultant or a head grower that can really point you in the direction of what's necessary and what is inappropriate at the moment.

Matthew: Well, that's a good point. If you are the business owner or master grower, lead grower, what are the things you should be thinking about at a high level when you're creating a commercial grower for the first time? How do you organize your thoughts about what needs to be done?

Ryan: From the get-go, it's probably a good idea to start at the end with the end product. We really want to determine what is it that we're going to sell. If we're growing dried flower for sale at a dispensary, that's going to dictate how we grow that crop. In a dispensary, you walk in and you've got dozens of varieties behind a glass counter. The visual appeal is very important, it actually makes up a big part of the sale process. If we're growing dried flower for sale at a dispensary, we're likely going to be growing indoors because that gives us the most amount of control over the crop and it results in really the best-looking product.

If we're growing for an extracted product, if we're going to sell oils or vape pens or edibles, then the visual appeal of the flower doesn't really matter because the consumer never sees it. We're growing the flower as a source of biomass from which we extract the active ingredient. In that case, actually, outdoor growing or greenhouse growing might be appropriate.

We want to start by looking at the end result and then once we determine what our final product is, then we work backwards from there. We look at the regulations to see if the regulations dictate that we have to grow in a certain way. For example, in Canada, when we started in 2013, we were only allowed to grow indoors. Now, eight years later, we've got people growing indoors, outdoors, in greenhouse, so we were don't look at the regulations.

Then probably the last part of that is really look at the climate. Even if you decide that growing outdoors makes sense, if you're in New Hampshire, you've got a really small window of time to make that happen. Whereas, if you're in Southern California or Arizona, you could have two or three crops during the course of the year just because the weather is different.

Even before we look at growing the plants or the technical stuff, we really want to look at the bigger picture things like the end product, if there's any regulatory prohibitions, and then also. what makes sense in that certain geography or climate.

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Ryan, how do you orient people in terms of budget? I know different projects have different budgets but is there any general guidelines you can help listeners with?

Ryan: Yes, so that's a critical piece of the puzzle because what I have found is that if you don't have a budget, then everything is too expensive. The risk is that you have a lot of these companies that sell turnkey solutions, specifically for the cannabis industry. HVAC systems that have the capacity to remove lots of water, which is the case with any kind of cultivation site, there's a lot of evaporation and transpiration. You have companies that offer turnkey solutions in terms of fertigation systems like I was speaking about before. These may be a little bit more expensive upfront, but what you get as a result is really low risk and limited downtime, and you give yourself the greatest likelihood of launching your facility on time successfully.

In terms of budget, if you're doing 10,000 square feet, you really want to have a couple of million dollars at your disposal. Anything larger than that, then you're looking at raising upwards of close to $10 million. What I tell clients in the beginning phases, if you're going to build something from scratch, if you're building an indoor facility, plan on spending about $250 a square foot to build that site out. If you're doing a greenhouse, plan out about $75 a square foot. Anyone can do the math on that as you approach 10,000 square feet or more, then we're definitely in the several millions of dollars.

Matthew: Okay. How about hiring? How do you pick staff that can really make an impact?

Ryan: Well, that's another key element to really establishing a successful cultivation program. Two things, I would say one on the head grower. The head grower in my opinion is arguably the most influential person in determining whether that business is a success or failure. I tell people to look for someone that has at least 10 years of experience. Not necessarily with cannabis, but at least with commercial plant production experience because they already come to the table with years of experience with facility management, production planning, and people management.

Sometimes if you hire for cannabis knowledge, what you get is someone that knows a lot about cannabis but doesn't necessarily know how to plan production or manage a team or orchestrate all of the nuances of a facility. As far as the head grower, I say look for someone with experience. You want someone that at least has a decade of experience growing anything but on a commercial scale.

Then for the rest of the team, you really don't need someone that has experience in the cannabis industry. Whether they're plant technicians or trimmers, you really just want to look for the same kind of characteristics that you would want when you hire anyone for any kind of job. That's really someone that has a track record of showing up on time, someone that can learn new skills quickly, and probably more importantly is someone that's really passionate and interested to get into this industry.

Matthew: You talked a little bit about pest issues and how a pest can get hitch a ride on cuttings of a mother plant, but how do you mitigate pest issues when they do get in? Because invariably, it seems like they do get in and you want to minimize the opportunity, but how do you deal with it once pests are inside a grow?

Ryan: That's a good point because that's the best way to look at it, not to be too naive. We need to anticipate that we're going to have pest and disease problems because every single monoculture in the world is attacked by something and eventually, it's going to happen. Of course, prevention is always less expensive and more efficient than curative measures, so we can prevent introducing diseased material into our grow up by either starting from seed or if we do accept cuttings or genetics from another grower, we could put that through a process of micro-propagation or tissue culture.

In the process of duplicating plants through tissue culture, you actually eliminate any disease that's inherent in the plant. It gives you an opportunity to really start fresh or at least establish a stock plant or a production system that's really clean at the base. Then during the course of growing, it's all about really maintaining schedules in terms of scouting the crop for potential issues, but then also either applying organic-based pest control products or releasing beneficial insects to really keep any potential outbreaks under control and really mitigate the damage that they might cause in the event of a crop failure.

Matthew: Can you talk a little bit about what actually is happening in the tissue culture process that you mentioned?

Ryan: Unfortunately, I can't get too specific because even I don't understand how that works. It's much more common in traditional agriculture. There's dozens of crops that are duplicated that way. Basically, traditional asexual propagation involves the taking of cuttings or clones. You have a mother plant, you cut off a shoot that's about four or six inches long, you stick it into a substrate, and two weeks later you've got roots and now you've got a genetically identical clone to that mother plant.

With tissue culture, it's somewhat of the same process, but you need much less plant materials. Really just a fraction of a centimeter of material is sufficient in order to start the process of propagating a new cutting. If you look at a standard mother plant, it could probably generate one or 200 cuttings every couple of weeks. With tissue culture, you could literally generate 10,000 cuttings from one plant at the same time.

Matthew: Wow. You mentioned a little bit about the automation you set up at a Tweed or Canopy Growth, but I'm interested in what kind of technology you think has the most positive impact in terms of making sure the automation is working correctly and managed correctly. Is there any names of products or anything that you could throw out there in terms of the best practices in terms of software or automation systems?

Ryan: There's so many out there. Really the most important thing I would direct people to look for is any kind of technology that helps you create the optimal growing conditions for the plant. That means really guaranteeing just a few factors and that is light intensity, temperature, humidity levels, and airflow, carbon dioxide to some extent too. If we can provide those four or five basic growing needs for the plant and have it right inside of those optimal ranges every single day, whether it's the lights on or lights off-cycle, then that makes growing a lot easier. If the plant is healthy, there's much less risk of insect or disease infestation.

I would say any technology, any equipment, or any software that helps the grower to better control the grow environment is going to be well worth the investment.

Matthew: One that probably sends you text messages or something. If it happens in the middle of the night you get alerted, right?

Ryan: Exactly. When we set up Canopy Growth, I was the first call on that list of phone numbers. When something went out of range, it would immediately call my cell phone until I picked up and acknowledged that there was a problem. Then if I couldn't remedy the issue from my computer at home, I'd run over to the production site and really dig into what was going on.

Matthew: Does that happen often or is that a rare thing? Like carbon dioxide level, too high, that's gone outside of range or something like that?

Ryan: Or maybe an HVAC system that has shut off, but the lights are still on, so you can literally see the temperature rising as the minutes go by. That's why I lived three minutes away from the production site when I moved to Canada because I knew I would be dedicating a lot of time there. To answer your question, it is common especially with new facilities as you're commissioning the equipment and trying to get all this new stuff to work together, but it's less common once you get going.

Matthew: I imagine if you're doing an indoor grow, you have to have alternate energy source like a natural gas backup or something like that or generator?

Ryan: Exactly. Exactly. It would be unlikely that a production plant, the size of Hershey's, that you would have a generator that would allow every single piece of equipment to continue running. You really have to identify what are the most critical elements in a grow operation to keep running in the event of a power failure.

Matthew: A lot of people, it's like the Hatfields and McCoys with lights. People have their preferences and they get angry at people that have other preferences. What kind of lights do you like for indoor grows?

Ryan: For indoor grows with a relatively low ceiling height or those indoor grows that are multi-tier, LED lights work really well because they have a really thin profile and they can get really close to the plant. If you're growing in a grow room with a low ceiling height, you know that these plants are typically cultivated on benches that are about two feet tall, the plants grow another three feet so you have five feet already. Then if you've got a short ceiling height, you can't have a light that's going to generate a lot of heat because you're going to burn the tops of your plants and there's nothing that you could do, so low ceiling height or multi-tier growing, I think LEDs work really well.

If you've got a high ceiling or if you're in a greenhouse environment, then I still like a lot of the HIDs because they're just so powerful. They can really penetrate the crop and they have a carrying power. If you're in a really high ceiling indoor grow-up or a really high gutter on a greenhouse, then these HID lights they're going to reach the plant and do the work that they need to do.

Matthew: Where do you think commercial grows are going and how are they going to evolve in the next three to five years?

Ryan: Well, I think that we need to anticipate that growers will come under increasing pressure to really minimize their carbon footprint. On the one hand, it's great that we've got more and more states and countries that are legalizing cannabis cultivation, but we don't want our legacy as an industry to be that we've created this energy-consuming hog in a sense.

I think as we look to the next three to five years, we should anticipate as responsible growers that we'll need to do more with less, which means that we need to continue producing cannabis but doing so using less electricity and less water. I think we're going to see a lot of technology that's going to allow indoor growers to do that, but I also think new projects and expansion projects are going to be looking to greenhouse production because it's a much more environmentally friendly way of growing cannabis.

If we look at every other crop that's grown in the world, we're the only ones that do it indoors. If they can do it successfully outdoors with something like tomatoes that has such a small profit margin, then we can certainly learn how to do that successfully with cannabis, given that some of these markets are commanding $4,000 a pound wholesale.

Matthew: You're seeing a lot more adoption then of the greenhouses in Canada it sounds like?

Ryan: Well, those are my recommendations. It's hard to say on a whole if new businesses are going more indoors or outdoors, but my recommendation to clients more and more is to look at greenhouses because they're less expensive to build, they're less expensive to operate, and in three or four years in the event that there's some very strict regulations regarding electrical and water consumption, if you've built a really expensive indoor grow up, it's going to be even more expensive to retrofit that thing to comply with the new regulations. I honestly think greenhouse is the future of large-scale cannabis cultivation.

Matthew: For people that are interested in your book and they're on the fence like, "Hey, am I going to read this book or am I not." Tell us what's the biggest benefits from reading your book?

Ryan: The person that could benefit the most is someone that is not from the cannabis industry but recognizes the business opportunity. What my book is going to help these folks do is really avoid the typical starter mistakes so they end up spending less and they come to market much more quickly.

Matthew: Okay. Makes sense. Let me ask you a few personal development questions here, Ryan. Is there a book that's had a big impact on your life or way of thinking that you'd like to share?

Ryan: Yes. For a long time, I always wanted to be an independent consultant. There's a book that I read that actually helps show me the way, showed me how to become a consultant and how to be the kind of consultant that I wanted when I was a Head Grower. It's a book called Getting Started in Consulting by Alan Weiss.

Matthew: Okay, and it worked.

Ryan: Yes. I can owe a lot of my success to that book.

Matthew: Okay. What do you think the most interesting thing is going on in your field?

Ryan: I think that kind of piggybacks a little bit on my previous answer in terms of really lessening our carbon footprint. Greenhouse and outdoor growers of cannabis, we can't rely on the pest control products that other growers can use, like pesticides or fungicides. We've got to get much more creative in growing these commercial crops by doing it in a very clean organic method.

What's exciting to me is seeing the way that growers are using, I would call biological agents, so beneficial bacteria, beneficial fungus, beneficial insects, in a way that prevents their crops from being exposed to potential disease, but also prevent or mitigates the potential damage from a crop failure. I'm excited to see in the next few years more and more companies implementing these products and really replacing pesticides with the use of organic methods and products to protect their crops.

Matthew: I feel geothermal's a big opportunity, especially in some of these environments with huge temperature swings, because you can be pulling the Earth's temperature into your grow and then the HVAC system just does the final last part instead of all the energy. It doesn't have to take everything to this extreme temperature that we can-- The Earth's temperature is at 50, I think once you go down 15 feet or 20 feet, and so if you could pull that temperature up into the grow and the HVAC has to consume a lot less electricity. Is there something I'm missing about that or is it just not widely thought of or is it difficult to implement?

Ryan: No, no, that makes a lot of sense. If you're in an area where you can take advantage of that principle, then I recommend it. I mentioned before that I'm from the traditional horticulture world and vegetable growers and ornamental flower growers, oftentimes, you'll have businesses that build these greenhouses right next to a power plant, or right next to an industry that generates heat as a waste product. When you look at places like the Northern states of the US, a large part of their operational expense is going to go into heating a greenhouse.

If you are connected to an industry or facility that generates heat as a waste product, then it dramatically drops your operating expenses in the same way that geothermal heat would. So if you're in an area where you can take advantage of that, I absolutely recommend it.

Matthew: What is one thought you have that most people would disagree with you on?

Ryan: I get a lot of pushback when I tell groups that their head grower should be the highest-paid person in the company. Like I said before, I think he or she has the greatest influence on determining whether that cultivation business is a success or a failure because the business makes money from growing plants. If your head grower is not a professional, skilled, experienced person, then you're raising $10 million or $20 million to bet on something that's very unlikely to pay off in the end. I always tell clients to find the best grower that they can afford and anticipate paying six figures and up for the right person.

Matthew: Okay. That makes sense. Ryan, as we close, tell us again the name of your book and how to purchase it.

Ryan: Sure. The book is called From Seed to Success: How to Launch a Great Cannabis Cultivation Business in Record Time, and both the paperback and the Kindle version are available on Amazon.

Matthew: Great stuff. Well, thanks so much, Ryan. This has been really helpful and informative and I know there's a lot of listeners out there that are looking for ways to improve their grows and also how to create an effective grow out of the gate. You mentioned you do consulting, are you still doing that?

Ryan: Absolutely. Anyone is welcome to reach out to me through my website at douglascultivation.com. I have a number of free resources for people that are thinking of getting into the business, but they're also welcome to contact me directly and I'd be more than happy to speak with anyone about their cannabis project.

Matthew: All right. Well, thanks again Ryan, and all the best to you in 2021.

Ryan: Thank you, Matt. It's been my pleasure.

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