Ep 364 – New High Potency Pre-Rolls Are Taking Off in California

scott sundvor space coyote

After earning a spot on the Forbes 30 Under 30 list in 2018, Scott Sundvor left a decorated career in the medical device industry to start a new venture in cannabis. In just three years, Space Coyote has become one of the top extract-infused pre-roll brands in all of California. Hear how he did it in this episode of CannaInsider.

Learn more at https://www.spacecoyote.org

Key Takeaways:

[1:02] An inside look at Space Coyote, one of the best-selling high potency preroll brands in California

[1:46] Scott’s background in the medical device industry and how he came to start Space Coyote

[12:32] Differences between Space Coyote’s high potency infused pre-rolls and other pre-rolls on the market

[16:15] What customers are saying about Space Coyote

[17:26] How the company has developed strong brand loyalty through experiential events

[21:26] The pros and cons of a fully remote cannabis brand and how that influences work culture and performance

[25:27] Why Scott believes cannabis is an “infinite game”

[28:41] Space Coyote’s efforts in sustainability and the best packaging options for cannabis brands right now

[34:12] Space Coyote’s goals for the next few years, including a sativa preservation project and plans to expand to the east coast

Click Here to Read Full Transcript

Matthew Kind: Hi, I'm Matthew Kind. Every Monday, look for a fresh new episode, where I'll take you behind the scenes and interview the insiders that are shaping the rapidly evolving cannabis industry. Learn more at cannainsider.com. That's C-A-N-N-A insider dot com. Now here's your program.

Sinead Green: Today's guest is a serial entrepreneur, accomplished inventor, and Forbes 30 Under 30, who left a decorated career in the medical device industry to start his own cannabis brand. In just two years, this company is now one of California's top pre-roll brands carried in over 250 dispensaries across the state. I'm pleased to welcome Scott Sundvor of Space Coyote to the show. Scott, thank you so much for joining us today.

Scott Sundvor: Thank you so much for having me. It's great to be here.

Sinead: Give us a sense of geography. Where are you in the world today?

Scott: Today I am in Laguna Beach, California, so Southern California.

Sinead: Awesome, cool. What is Space Coyote on a high level? Can you give us an overview of the company?

Scott: Yes, Space Coyote sells-- we sell primarily infused joints, so high-quality, high-potency joints that are infused with the best extracts on the market, hash, live resin, diamonds, all infused, but really, we think of ourselves not just as a product company. We really are creating a brand that people can get behind. What comes along with that is creating this-- more of a dream of what California cannabis can be and the lifestyle that you can live being both an entrepreneur, but really in just anything that people want to do and how cannabis can be a part of that.

Sinead: Very cool. I know there's a really cool story behind the name Space Coyote, which I want to get to in a second here, but first, Scott, I want to backtrack a little bit. You only really got into the cannabis space a couple of years ago at this point. Can you share a little bit about your background and what led you to start Space Coyote?

Scott: Yes, my background before Space Coyote was in the medical device space as you mentioned. I got my engineering degree from MIT. About a year after graduating, I started a company called Nima that created the world's first portable sensors for people that had a food allergy. If you had a gluten allergy or peanut allergy, you could use our product to test your food on the spot and make sure that those allergens weren't present. It really just made eating for people who had food intolerances or food allergies a lot safer. The reason I came to that company was because I myself have suffered with a lot of gut issues through my life.

I have Crohn's disease, which is an autoimmune gut disease. Because of that also, I actually found cannabis was very medicinally helpful for me when I was in college. I ate some pot brownies that my roommate made one night, and I had been recreationally using for a while at that point. I just love the plant in general, but the first time I had those pot brownies, the next day my gut felt incredible.

After having a few more pot brownies over the course of the next week or two, I realized that there was a direct correlation between how my gut felt and how much cannabis I was consuming. When I was making the decision to leave my last company, and I was thinking about what to do next, I think there's a small percentage of people in the world that are crazy enough to be entrepreneurs multiple times in a row. I knew that I wanted to start something else.

My co-founder in Space Coyote, Libby, she was the creative director of Eaze at the time, who was-- at the time, they were the largest cannabis delivery company in California, I believe in America. Being able to just see what she was experiencing there, how quick the growth was, and knowing that I had this manufacturing and supply chain background that-- we weren't directly a medical device but we worked under a lot of the same scrutiny that medical devices do and very complex supply chain across three different continents, and taking that experience and applying it to cannabis where the entire supply chain has to operate within one state.

I mean an infused joint has maybe five different components in it, including the packaging versus the product that I was building that had several hundred components. I just thought that first of all cannabis was something that I loved and had helped me a lot both recreationally and medicinally. There was just a ton of opportunity at that time in the industry. I think there still is. The background that I had combined with the background that Libby had just was the perfect fit to get into the industry at that time.

Sinead: Very cool. Yes, just to paint a picture for listeners, you started at Nima when you were only 22, which then was named one of Time Magazine’s best inventions in 2015. You were then named Forbes 30 Under 30 at 27. You've gone on now to launch Space Coyote, which has seen great success over the last couple of years. Can you tell us a little bit about your experiences over the last decade and how you now apply those at Space Coyote?

Scott: Yes, definitely. I think that I look at it in two ways. One is from the management and the leadership side, and the other is from just understanding how products are built and how to successfully launch and scale a business. With my first company, I was very young when I went in. I mean I'm intelligent, I've always worked very hard to do my best in whatever role I'm at.

As part of my first company, that meant reading as many leadership books as I could, getting mentorship where I could. I ended up hiring an executive coach, which was extremely helpful, but the second time around, now with Space Coyote, I'm already seeing so many situations where I'm such a better leader, I'm such a better manager.

I treat my employees better. I understand them better, I have more empathy. That has been extremely helpful in building an organization that functions really well and I'm really grateful for having that experience when I was so young. I mean, most people-- I think the average age of a first-time entrepreneur is 28, something like that.

I had that experience much younger and I'm really, really grateful for that, but also with that company, we built extremely complex hardware that had chemistry built into it, we had a software development team built an app. Over the course of that company I managed-- I think the only department in the company that I never managed at Nima was finance.

I managed our sales and marketing team. I managed our engineering team, I managed our operations team. I got all this experience of just how to, first of all, build a product with a complex, a very complex supply chain and then how to commercialize that, how to launch a product and how to get other people on board and even the fundraising process how to bring cash in.

Being able to take all of that experience and then apply it to this industry has really just been so valuable because cannabis is definitely a complex industry. It's more difficult than your standard CPG or that type of thing, but I hear a lot of people in the industry, even investors talking about how difficult cannabis is.

Coming from basically a medical device to this, my perspective has always been like, yes, there's some challenges here but this is easy compared to what I was used to. I'm very grateful to have that education both from college, but then especially from my first company of really being put through the wringer.

Of course, there are still things that come up with Space Coyote that are very difficult and take a lot of manpower and brainpower to solve the issues but I feel like I'd just set up so much better having had that first-time founder experience with Nima before coming into Space Coyote.

Sinead: Very cool. It sounds like you really have the full gamut of experience when it comes to the inner workings of a company. Like you said, I feel like there are actually a good bit of overlap between cannabis and the medical device field in terms of regulations and compliance. I'm sure you-

Scott: Oh, definitely.

Sinead: - yes, really put through the wringer there and it's helped you a lot here clearly, that's awesome. Scott, getting back to-- I alluded to the story about the name Space Coyote earlier. Can you tell us a little bit about the experience that sparked the inspiration for that name?

Scott: Yes. It was a great weekend. It actually happened to be the day after my final day at Nima. I decided to leave that company, and my co-founder was taking overrunning everything. The company was in great hands. I left Nima had my last day there, which was very bittersweet, and the next day actually happened to be my birthday. I gathered a group of about 25 of my friends, we all went down to Joshua Tree. We're in the desert. It also happened that that weekend there was a new moon and a meteor shower, so no moonlight and just all these meteors. I brewed a big batch of mushroom tea, enough to feed everyone. We all drank some mushroom tea and then it was pitch black outside. You could see the Milky Way and you could see all these stars.

We were traipsing about the desert and climbing up on top of boulders. I've never had an experience where I so completely felt that we literally are on a rock just flying through space. It was just with how dark the sky was and you could see all these stars and every few seconds there were meteors flying through. Then we started hearing some coyotes yapping and one of my friends goes, “Oh, my God, we're space coyotes.”

Immediately then-- we kept saying that for the rest of the weekend and actually one of our taglines, at Space Coyotes, is Get Glazed. That actually came from a typo. We had created a Facebook event that invited all my friends to this. Libby had actually set this up, who's my cofounder. She had made a typo that instead of saying Scott star gazing birthday, it was Scott star glazing birthday. Get Glazed stuck, Space Coyote stuck. At that time, we didn't yet have a plan for exactly what cannabis company we were going to launch.

We knew that that was something that we were interested in and over the course of the next three to six months, we did the market research that we wanted to, thought about what type of products we wanted to introduce to the market. The whole time we knew that we had a name, the name was perfect. It was Space Coyote, guaranteed. We just had to create a product that really fits that Space Coyote, Get Glazed vibe that we had created in the desert that night.

Sinead: Man, what a serendipitous story. So many brands toil over-- they maybe have their product ready to go, but they then have to spend months and months toiling over a name. That's just amazing that you guys just happen to come up with that over a fun weekend. That's a great name, too. Very memorable.

Scott: Thank you.

Sinead: That's awesome. So cool. Getting into Space Coyote, can you tell me a little bit more about how you guys came up with your product? I know it's an infused pre-roll. How is it different from other infused pre-rolls on the market and how do you guys go about sourcing your flour and crafting each pre-roll that you now sell?

Scott: For us, it was a very research-based approach. We knew that we wanted to make something that one was a product that we wanted to use ourselves. Really, I believe that in order to really be able to stay committed while you're being an entrepreneur and a founder and to feel comfortable and excited to sell something, that has to be something that you would use yourself, that you would want yourself. That was the first criteria, it had to be something that we wanted to use ourselves.

Also, we wanted to create a product that we knew that we were going to be able to sell easily and that wasn't going to have a ton of competition right off the bat, that was more unique than just your everyday cannabis product. With Libby's background coming from Eaze, she had just observed the course of the market over the past couple of years before that. She knew that really one of the biggest things that customers look for is that price to THC ratio. They want as much THC for the lowest price as they can get. We really do see that dominate in the market.

It's honestly something that I dislike because I think that there's a ton of cannabis that is incredible, that is low THC and just the terpene content is what makes it really amazing. The metric that most customers look at is THC. We didn't want to fight an uphill battle. We wanted to make something that spoke to the way that customers are making purchasing decisions today. We looked at a few different things. We settled on infused pre-rolls partially because we were already rolling those ourselves. One of my favorite things to do at that time was to get some high CBD flour and roll a joint with some sativa indica hash mixed in. We just thought that that was an incredible product.

There were a couple of infused joints on the market at the time when we launched but they were all done in a different way than what we did where they basically painted their joints with distillate and then rolled them kief to create the infusion. From our perspective, that just is not a high-quality product. Distillate is the cheapest, lowest quality type of extract you can get. Kief can be high quality, a lot of times it's not. When the extract is on the outside of the joint, then a lot of it ends up just burning up or the smoke gets in your eyes instead of your lungs.

We wanted to do an infused joint where we were actually using high-quality flour. We have never used trimmer [unintelligible [00:15:41] in our joints and we never will. We always use very high-quality extracts. The first thing that we did was collaborate with a hash brand. We've now also done collaborations with live resin brands. We've done collaborations on diamonds.

That's because we want to show our customers that we're putting the best quality ingredients into our product. If they see Nasha Hash or field live resin or GIL diamonds in there, they know that that is a high-quality extract, and so they can trust that we're providing a high-quality product to them.

Sinead: That's awesome. For your various products, obviously, you've got a wide selection at this point, but what would you say when you get customer feedback, what are some adjectives that they give you for their experience smoking these pre-rolls?

Scott: That's been one of the great things about the way that we've built our product in that we just wanted it to be a high quality and we didn't even really think about how big of an impact this would have. Every time we give someone one of our joints, the reaction we get almost every time is, “This is the best joint I've ever smoked,” or just like, “Holy shit, this thing is potent,” or like, “Oh, wow. I smoke a lot and this got me super high.” We joke that, which it's not even a joke, it's real one Space Coyote can get 10 people high and it's going to be the best experience that you have.

In the early days, that was really helpful because we were this no-name brand that came out and would struggle to get meetings with buyers. All we had to do was get them to try our joints. If they tried our joints and they said, “Hey, you're right, this is a great joint. Let's bring into the store.”

Sinead: Oh, that's awesome. At Space Coyote, you guys seem to have just incredible brand loyalty among customers. Clearly, it's partly to do with just the quality of the product. They keep coming back for more. What efforts have you really made over the last couple of years to really secure that brand loyalty with customers?

Scott: That's a great question. I'm going to answer this from a macro perspective first and then get into the details a little bit, but the way that we've always looked at our company and at the cannabis market as a whole is that at some point brands are going to become very valuable. That's because flour will get commoditized.

It has actually taken longer than we thought it would, but it looks like this year there is for the first time in California, there's an oversupply of flour, meaning that flour is finally getting commoditized. When flour is commoditized, when anyone more or less can get access to the same type of quality, then the only thing that really differentiates different companies is one, the uniqueness of their product, and two, the strength of their brand.

From day one, we knew that we didn't want to just build a product company. We wanted to build a brand. With that, the first thing that we did when we launched was we created an experiential event. This was, of course, before COVID when everyone could sit in a room and smoke joints together. There were no issues. We threw these series of events that really our goal was to make people feel what it was like to be a Space Coyote.

I mentioned it earlier, but really being a Space Coyote and the Space Coyote brand, it's about this idea of living the dream, or you could call it living the California dream or living your best life and being able to do that through both cannabis, but also what you love. Whether that's being an artist or you're, say, a tech job or whatever, but just living the best life that you can.

Part of that is the way that you recreate and using cannabis or working remotely or living somewhere beautiful. At these events that we would throw, there would always be art involved, typically music. Our first one was a live record listening party. We have a friend who's a DJ, who-- he tells stories along with every song that he plays. We would do a sativa set in the beginning where the songs are a little more energetic, and then we do an indica set afterwards, that we would pair it with the sativa and indica joints. We did a couple of events like that with music. Another one with an extremely talented musician from New York. It was truly the most psychedelic experience I've ever had with weed.

When we launched our first diamonds-infused joints, and he played-- with the indica set, he played this, just this set of music that it transported you to the bottom of the ocean, and then to the deepest, most green forest and then up into the sky.

Sinead: Oh, my Gosh.

Scott: It was so incredible. We've always tried to do things like that. Now we've built a Space Coyote bus that is touring the state and going to different dispensaries where people can hang out in the bus and smoke a joint there and just feel this Space Coyote vibe.

Libby and I also do a livestream on Facebook every week that typically gets between, 30,000 to-- we had a couple go viral that went up to over a million views, but really just sharing the way that we live our lives and the way that we've built the company and built this work-life balance and mental health for our employees and, yes, really just this California cannabis dream, and that's what we want to share with people and that's the brand that we're creating.

Sinead: Okay, very cool. If I'm not mistaken, Scott, is Space Coyote is totally remote company at this point?

Scott: We are, yes.

Sinead: Can you tell us a little bit about that aspect of the company, and maybe the pros and cons of being remote and how that influences the work culture and performance at Space Coyote?

Scott: Definitely. This was something that we talked a lot about when we founded the company, and even with our first set of investors, we told them directly, “Before you invest, we want you to know that we will make business decisions that put employee health and happiness above profits. We want you to know that and be okay with that before you put money into the company.” The response that we actually got back from our investors was, “Great. We actually think that that's going to end up making you more profitable.”

I think that that is completely true. Really, a lot of it came from, again, my experience with my last company, and just learning things that went well and things that didn't. This was the situation. The reason I ended up leaving my last company was actually for health reasons. When I started that company, my co-founder and I talked about, we said, "We want a culture where we are the hardest working company, and everyone is putting in 110%. That's going to be the culture that we have.”

That's very Silicon Valley, MIT, tech mentality. I was really proud of that, to begin with, but after being at the company for five years and running it in that way, I was building this company to try to help make other people healthy and my own personal health was completely deteriorating. I actually ended up having to take two medical leaves of absence from my company, because my Crohn's disease got so bad, I lost 30 pounds in a month at one point.

Sinead: Oh, God.

Scott: My doctors were saying that the only choice I had was to remove my colon. When that happened, I really had to take a step back and say, "Wow, okay, where have you gone wrong? Why has your health gotten to such a bad place that you literally cannot go to the office, you can't work, you have to take a medical leave?"

When I did really take a step back and focused on that, then I realized that this mentality of we're going to be the hardest working and putting in 110% all the time, that might work if you look at things in a sprint, or in this finite game perspective, and this is a concept that we can talk about more too. We're playing an infinite game here. We're playing a game where the goal is to stay in the game for as long as possible and to build a long-term successful company, not a company that executes and "wins" in two or three years.

If we wanted to do that with Space Coyote, I knew that we had to prioritize health and happiness above everything else because if we have a team that is healthy, and happy and focusing not just on their physical health, but also their mental health, that's how we're going to get the best performance out of employees. If you work 60, 70 hour weeks, but only 30 of those hours are productive, then you should only be working 30 or 40 hours and then resting the rest of the time because then you'll be really productive when you're actually working. That type of mentality has really worked well for us.

I think because of that, our employees are really grateful. I've had employees multiple times, say things like, "You're the best boss I've ever had,” or, “I've never worked for a company that actually cared about my health before," and things like that, which to me is like that's part of being an entrepreneur, is to build the best environment possible. It's not just to make money with the products that you sell.

Sinead: Absolutely. I love your entire model and the work culture that you've really fostered at Space Coyote, it seems like such a fun place to work, and something you said a few minutes ago about, “this is an infinite game.” I really agree with you there on that and something else that you have done at Space Coyote that really ties into that is, instead of jumping in the rat race and trying to compete with your competitors, you partner with them and bolster each other up to profit together and find success together. Can you tell us a little bit about those efforts and maybe one or two of your favorite partnerships today?

Scott: Yes, definitely. I'll explain the concept of the infinite gamer versus finite game a little bit for any of your listeners that aren't familiar with that but it's a concept that Simon Sinek talks about a lot. An infinite game is one where the goal of the game is to stay in the game as long as possible. Players can come in or out. There's no fixed rules and really, if you look at it life is an infinite game and business should be an infinite game.

Whereas a finite game is more of like a soccer game, where there's set rules, the players are defined, people can't come in and out, and somebody wins at the end. I think the way that most companies today, especially in America, look at business is in this finite game mentality. The issue is that companies aren't built to last two years, or five years or seven years, a company should be built to last indefinitely.

If we want to have that perspective, that means that in the infinite game that we're playing, we're not trying to win, we're not trying to just beat our competitor, we're not trying to have someone else lose, we're trying to for ourselves, and also for the good of the industry, we want as many companies and as many people to be successful as possible. That is part of what we did from the beginning was collaborating with extract brands, which, for example, our first collaboration was with Nasha on their hash, that's one of my favorite collaborations.

That was the first one that we did. We still work really closely with Baron and his team over there. Today, Nasha has their own infused pre-roll on the market. That's not something that we're upset about at all because it's good for his business and we have our market share, and our market share is still growing. There's room for more than one of us, there's room for many players.

We really want to help build up the industry as a whole. I think the more the industry as a whole is successful, the more individual companies can be successful and the best way to do that is to collaborate with other companies.

Sinead: That's great. I love what you said there. There's really a piece of the pie for everyone. I think the cannabis industry is becoming more and more collaborative. I love to see companies like yours that are really leading the charge there so that's awesome.

Jumping into another key initiative at Space Coyote, you make a lot of efforts towards being a sustainable company and really trying to pick the best packaging options and reducing your carbon footprint at Space Coyote. Actually, you commissioned a full review of packing options when you first started Space Coyote and you tried to take a look at their environmental impacts, you actually discovered that compostable plastics came out of the bottom, which I found pretty surprising when I read that.

What do you use instead of Space Coyote and how are you guys working to make your packaging even more sustainable?

Scott: That whole situation was a total mindfuck because I was expecting compostable plastics as well to be the best option. What we learned was that it was in fact the worst and this is a case-- We hired a friend who is an environmental consultant. She was equally surprised as us. I think it was just as difficult mentally for her when she delivered the findings to us, but really, when it comes down to it and as we've thought about this, and this is one of the other reasons why it's a bit of a mind, is that as a company that produces products, there is no way that you can't make a negative impact on the environment. That's something that I personally just had to sit with for a bit and just think about. There's no way that we're not at least going to make some negative impact. What's the best thing to do then? Do we shut down the business or what?

One of the people that I really respect as a businessman and the way that they've set up what they do is Yvon Chouinard, who's the founder of Patagonia. He talks about this a bit too. His perspective is that it's a company's responsibility to make as little impact as possible.

It's impossible to make zero impact. What can you do to make as little impact as possible? With this packaging review, what we found was really, the best thing that you can do is to reuse things. Anything that you produce, whether it's compostable plastic or normal plastic or glass or aluminum, the best thing that you can do is to reuse things.

That's why our five packs are in these aluminum tins that happen to be the perfect size to fit your credit cards in, or you can store your jewelry in there or condoms or medicine or whatever. We really encourage people to reuse our packaging as much as possible. The environmental study that we commissioned actually found that as far as greenhouse gas, emissions on the watershed, energy usage, that type of thing, plastic is actually one of the best options.

I am a huge lover of the ocean. I've lived near the ocean, my entire life. The way that I de-stress is by going swimming or going surfing and just spending time on the beach whenever I can. Whenever I see plastic on the beach, which is literally every time I go to the beach, it pains me. I spend part of, or I try to spend part of every month in Hawaii.

That was my home for the past couple years. I've had to rescue sea turtles from fishing line and I've pulled so much trash off the beach. Using plastic is just something that I want to get away from as much as possible. Our joint tubes have been plastic.

We kept them that way for a while because we really wanted to think about what we could do that was better. It's difficult to find an aluminum tube that is child-resistant and actually preserves the integrity of the product well through air [unintelligible [00:32:53]. We're actually moving to glass tubes very soon, which have their pros and cons.

They're a lot heavier than plastic. The energy usage to ship them is higher. From my perspective, the ocean, it's the largest thing on the planet. If we destroy the ocean, we're going to destroy the whole planet. Whatever we can do to help prevent that plastic getting into the ocean, I think is positive. We've looked at using plastic that was recycled and harvested out of the ocean, which I still would like to do at some point in the future.

That isn't at scale yet where it can make sense for a company like ours, but I think that there's a lot of options that can be good, but really when it comes to on to it, we just look at how can we make the smallest impact possible? How can we encourage people to reuse? What else can we do as a company beyond just the packaging decisions that we make to try to encourage others also to make as little impact on the environment as possible?

Sinead: That's great. How mind-blowing that compostable plastic is at the bottom there. I really did love seeing that you guys are moving to glass, which I know, like you said, has its pros and cons, but that's awesome that you guys are moving in that direction. If I'm not mistaken, you're now at in 250 dispensaries across California. What go do you have now at Space Coyote over the next few years? Do you have any big plans coming up listeners should know about?

Scott: Two big things. The first is we're launching a new project very soon, at the end of this month, that's called the Sativa Preservation Society. This is a project that is really near and dear to our hearts. It's an idea that Libby and I talked about from day one and we're just now being able to make it a reality. In the cannabis market today, you can buy sativas and you can buy indicas, but really everything that you buy is a hybrid. It's really difficult to find and pure sativas.

That's because the sativa growing cycle is much longer than the indica growing cycle. Typically, yields are a little bit lower. It might take sativas 14 weeks to flower, whereas it takes indicas eight weeks to flower. For a farmer it's just, it's difficult to make the same amount of money on something that takes almost twice as long.

Everything's become hybridized. That means that whenever you're smoking sativa, and for people that like those more energetic effects, what you can get on the market today is just not the same as what was available from the original genetics. We've been able to partner up with an incredible cultivator [unintelligible [00:35:44] impossible. We have exclusive access.

As far as I know, this is the first time these specific screens have ever made it to the legal market in any state. We're starting with three of the original haze strains that were brought over from the Netherlands by Nebel. They're the strains, that popular strains that you've heard of today like super silver hazes or Jack Herer or strains like that, blue dream.

These all originated from these haze strains.

They look funky. They have a smell that you probably have never smelled before in cannabis. It's like this and [unintelligible [00:36:32] scentsy just interesting smell, and the high, it's legitimately drinking two cups of coffee. It's just so cool. This weed, one of the strains is called Cuban Black Haze. It was known as the piff in New York for a while. People used to pay like $800 an ounce for this stuff in the black market because it's so unique.

We now have it at scale. We'll be presenting it to the California market at the end of this month. The high is just so incredible. I'm so excited to get that out there. That really speaks to what I was talking about earlier in that anyone can be a product company, but not anyone can build a unique brand.

Part of the way that we do that is by creating unique products. Even our infused joints, when we came out with them at first, we did them differently than the other infused joints, because we thought it was a better quality way to do it. With the Sativa Preservation Society, these are strains and genetics that nobody has, and is just so unique.

It's not your latest wedding cake or ice cream cake or gelato cross that is absolutely everywhere. This shit is unique and awesome. We're really excited about that. The other thing that we'll be looking to do very soon is to take our California brand and start bringing that across the country. We've seen a lot of the MSOs are taking more of the east to west approach.

What I think is really going to end up winning, winning is more from the finite game perspective, but what is going to be successful in the, I really do believe is California brands coming to other parts of America, because that's what people think of when they think of weed. They think California, they think smoking on the beach, they think about a brand like Space Coyote if they haven't even heard Space Coyote before.

We just really believe that we're setting ourselves up to be the perfect brand to bring back to the East Coast or to places like Arizona or the Midwest and to really sell that California dream and the joint. We're really excited to get that started. That's great, man. A lot of big things ahead.

Sinead: I'm really excited for you guys and excited to see you, like you said, expand across the country into the East Coast. Scott, pivoting into some personal development questions here, before we wrap up the show first question here is, is there a book that's had a big impact on you and maybe like your life philosophy that you'd like to share with listeners?

Scott: There is, yes. It's actually required reading for any new employees that join Space Coyote and it’s the book written by the founder of Patagonia, Yvon Chouinard, it's called Let My People Go Surfing. I read that book in between leaving Nima and before starting Space Coyote. It really had a profound impact on the way that I think about not just business, but also life, and really, this perspective of do as little harm as possible and treat your employees right, and prioritize health and happiness. It's really an incredible little story. It tells both his story of how he started Patagonia and the ethos that went into that. I think they had the first on-premise childcare of any major company in America. Then that ended up becoming standard in a bunch of companies. They've done a lot of things like that that really just prioritize their employees first. We can see today they're an insanely valuable company, have grown a ton. That really stems from their ethos and the way they do business. That book has had a really big impact on me.

The other book that I recommend to anyone who wants to be an entrepreneur is The Hard Thing About Hard Things by Ben Horowitz. That is the most real business or entrepreneurship book that I've ever read. I think a lot of books, they give these concepts and these theories and all this stuff, but that book it's really just a set of stories from the battle trenches written by Ben Horowitz.

It's just a lot of really good lessons for any company, for any founder, you're going to have times when things are really difficult and you might be afraid of going out of business or you have to deal with some really difficult employee issues or that type of thing. That stuff can be really stressful and he has a lot of very good advice in there that is very empathetic with what any founder will go through.

Sinead: Ma, I'm going to have to put those on my reading list. I had actually listened to the Patagonia's How I Built This interview. I don't know, have you listened to that one?

Scott: I have not. I'm going to have to check it out.

Sinead: Oh, man. I highly recommend it. It's funny, when I was researching Space Coyote, I saw so many parallels and I wondered if you had taken maybe some inspiration from him.

Scott: Yes, 100%.

Sinead: That's awesome. So cool. Moving into our next question here Scott, you touched on this earlier, but you've talked about your personal connection between cannabis and music and how those two things are intertwined for you and they really enhance each other. What's a band or maybe a concert that you've been to where you found that especially true?

Scott: Oh, man, all of them. For me, the combination of cannabis and music is just so incredible. I think one of one of my favorite experiences was with a band called Kikagaku Moyo. I'll look up the spelling so your listeners can find that.

Sinead: Yes, that'd be good.

Scott: It's spelled K-I-K-A-G-A-K-U and the next word Moyo, M-O-Y-O. They are a Japanese psychedelic rock band. You can find their stuff on Spotify. It's good, but seeing them live is just one of the most incredible experiences. They have a guy who plays an electric sitar and they're all barefoot on stage and they have that long, perfectly straight Japanese psychedelic rocker hair. They're such a blast from the past, which I often joke with my friends that it's like, I feel like I was born or should have been born in the ‘60s. They just put on such a great show.

I remember the first time I saw them was in San Francisco. It was actually shortly after launching Space Coyote. Libby and I and a couple friends smoked the Space Coyote before going in and watching the show. It was just one of the best musical experiences I've ever had. Now they're starting to gain a little more name recognition. I think they're on tour in California this summer. I highly recommend people to find them and go smoke a Space Coyote and listen to some Japanese psychedelic rock. That has definitely been one of my favorite experiences.

Sinead: Awesome. Man, that sounds so cool. I'll have to check them out. Scott, wrapping up here, how can listeners find you online and connect with you at Space Coyote and how can they maybe try a few of your products if they're in the California area?

Scott: The best way to find me is on Instagram @scottsundvor S-C-O-T-T-S-U-N-D-V-O-R. They can find Space Coyote on Instagram as well @spacecoyoteofficial. Our website is a great place, especially because we will be launching a direct-to-consumer site within the next week or two. People can go to our website, spacecoyote.org, and order. If they're in California, in most of the major metropolitan areas, they'll be able to order directly from our site delivered right to their door, typically within the next 24 hours. That's at spacecoyote.org.

Sinead: Awesome. All right, Scott. Thank you so much for coming on the show. We really appreciate hearing from you. I really wish you the best of luck with everything coming up for Space Coyote over the next year.

Scott: Thank you so much. This was great being here, really enjoyed the questions and talking with you.

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